On cabs with good low end response vs HPFs….

[Hollowway]

I'm wanting to get a small-ish cab, and was initially looking for something with a good frequency response. Something down to 30 or 40Hz. But then I've been reading about HPFs, and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't go for a cab that only goes down to 70, or even 100Hz. Am I thinking about this wrong? I know there is usually some rolloff on the low end anyway, but does it make sense to get a cab with good low end response and then HPF it anyway?

 

[Wasnex]

AFAIK, to get get exceptional LF extension out of a small cab generally requires giving up efficiency and SPL. Applying an HPF may be give the cab a bit more power handling so it can play slightly louder, but it won't increase the sensitivity.

The Acme Low B series is an example. The Low B2 is designed to only be 6dB down at 31hz, but the sensitivity is only 93dB 1W/1m, which is rather low. The Low B2 is rated for 350W RMS but is mechanically limited to 300W at 31hz.

 

[pepj]

My opinion is 40 hz etc serves no purpose.
You really don't want sub on stage. Haven't seen a decent act internationally that goes for huge sub either. I know they are out there but the best 3 acts I have seen recently did not pursue that type of sound.
So for local, no, no, no, imo.
Can your amp produce it and if so at what cost?
Can your drivers take it..
Best not to go there at all, imv.

I used a 'regarded' cab recently and it was all deep bass and no tone. Did not like it at all.

 

[lomo]

A floor of 70 or 100Hz sounds high to me. When I play around with my variable HPF I start with it off and then dial it up until the boomiest boom of the B is tamed, which usually ends up being around 50-55 Hz. If I dial it to 100, to my ear, all the deep bass is gone. At 60Hz a lot of the depth is missing. I suppose it depends on what your musical goal is and/or whether you want something specifically for a monitor that will eliminate the bottom. My old Schroeder cabs from years go did that....nasal & honky without much content below 100Hz at all......easy to hear/ cut through like a scimitar, but not pleasing to my ear.

 

[el murdoque]

It certainly helps to have been there and done that - to really experience a sound system that poses no limits on you and can reproduce the fundamentals of your lowest strings as loud as you wish for. Because for most people, that is the moment of clairvoyance, the epiphany that shows them they don't want that.
At all. If you're dabbling with dub, electronic music or synth bass, you might disagree, but for all other genres it is almost always better to have some kind of roll off in the lows that starts upwards of 50 Hz.

 

[Aloe]

if the cab is rated '100Hz and up', it's probably not a bass cab. I think, most 1x12 guitar cabs are rated to go deeper nowadays. 100Hz and up seems to me something like a 8" mini-PA.

 

[Zbysek]

A floor of 70 or 100Hz sounds high to me. When I play around with my variable HPF I start with it off and then dial it up until the boomiest boom of the B is tamed, which usually ends up being around 50-55 Hz. If I dial it to 100, to my ear, all the deep bass is gone. At 60Hz a lot of the depth is missing. I suppose it depends on what your musical goal is and/or whether you want something specifically for a monitor that will eliminate the bottom. My old Schroeder cabs from years go did that....nasal & honky without much content below 100Hz at all......easy to hear/ cut through like a scimitar, but not pleasing to my ear.

When I set HPF for the signal which is sent to FOH, I stay below 80 Hz (usually around 50-60Hz).

When my rig carries the room, I might set the HPF anywhere between 30 and 100Hz-depending on room acoustics.

When I apply HPF to my rig (after DI send to FoH), I might set it as high as 190Hz.

 

[brianrost]

The Acme Low B series is an example. The Low B2 is designed to only be 6dB down at 31hz, but the sensitivity is only 93dB 1W/1m, which is rather low. The Low B2 is rated for 350W RMS but is mechanically limited to 300W at 31hz.

I owned one for a very short time. It sounded fantastic and the low end specs were dead on, the open E string fundamental was there. Unfortunately it needed too much power to be loud enough for my gigs. I was driving it with an amp rated for 400W and the amp was clipping (bad) and the cab still wasn't loud enough. Since some users recommended using 800 watts or more the manufacturer had to warn against overpowering the cabs.

I've had similar results with AI cabinets. Tiny and great sounding but not very loud. I once hooked up my AI Coda combo (400 watts into 4 ohms) to a Bergantino HT1122 and I had to flip the on-off switch for the internal driver to convince myself it was even working because the Berg was so much louder.

I don't use HPFs for woofer excursion control, I only use them for feedback control when playing DB.

 

[jthisdell]

a HPF works well with cabs with good low end response, makes the response in the freqs you want better, improves amp efficiency and makes the cab work better. I always use one. Don't get hung up on the numbers, use your ears.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

I'm wanting to get a small-ish cab, and was initially looking for something with a good frequency response. Something down to 30 or 40Hz. But then I've been reading about HPFs, and now I'm wondering if I shouldn't go for a cab that only goes down to 70, or even 100Hz. Am I thinking about this wrong? I know there is usually some rolloff on the low end anyway, but does it make sense to get a cab with good low end response and then HPF it anyway?

It may be helpful to think about this more as a "system" than a cab choice. The HPF is really used to dial in sound for the room. If the room is "boomier," you hit the HPF harder. In a quieter room, the HPF will be needed less. So get a cab that goes "low enough" to give you the tone you like in a more controlled environment. For me, 70Hz would be too high. A cab in the 40ish area would be more practical.

Another HPF use case is volume. I've got a Phil Jones BG-150 combo, which is a tiny guy with a low-end of 40Hz. The HPF lets me goose a little extra volume out of it without having to carry the weight of a heavier cab, so that's another HPF benefit.

 

[Alban]

If you are playing 4-strings in regular tunings, then there is very little reason to get a cab that goes down all the way to 40 Hz, in my opinion.
Many cabs don't go that low anyway, the specs on the manufacturer's websites often fool you into believing that. Specs like "frequency response 40-20000 Hz" are quite meaningless if you don't know the SPL at 40 Hz.
I am currently using a vertical stack of 2x10 EBS Neoline cabs, which give me awesome low end on stage. They start to roll off at about 50 Hz.

 

[HueyFreeman]

but does it make sense to get a cab with good low end response and then HPF it anyway?

It does.
I, like many others here, boost bass downstream of an HPF. It may sound counter intuitive but it works wonders giving the upper register notes heft while controlling the lower registers notes. Helps to seperate control between what you hear and what you feel.

 

[micguy]

I'm wanting to get a small-ish cab, and was initially looking for something with a good frequency response. Something down to 30 or 40Hz.

We'd all like that, but it really doesn't exist - the laws of Physics work really hard against you, unfortunately. There is a 3 way tradeoff in speakers - small, loud (efficient), and low frequency extension - any gain in one comes at the expense of at least one (if not both) of the other factors. Commercially available bass guitar cabinets all (except Acme) sacrifice low end extension to get "small" and efficient. Acme's sacrifice some efficiency to get relatively small and decent low frequency extension (but not 30 Hz). As bass guitar cabs can't really handle the fundamentals of our lowest notes, a high pass filter is necessary to keep them from producing the garbage they put out if you do put high power low frequency signals into them. Low frequency fundamentals reproduced well (contrary to the popular opinion here) don't sound muddy, but the distortion that bass guitar cabs produce if you drive them hard at low frequencies are "mud".

If you get the chance to play through a really great PA, the "big boy" subs that are on tours and in really big venues (not you local pub) actually do reproduce 30 Hz just fine - in that case, a high pass filter is less necessary - one to eliminate sub audible stuff (below 30 Hz) is still a good idea, but your low B string's fundamental through a PA system, well set up, with really good subs, is a glorious thing. How do those subs do this? Hint - they won't fit in your car, and the amp driving them has FAR more power (for each sub) than your measly little bass amp. An SVT may be glorious for an on stage amp, but it can't compete with a PA with a bunch of decent subs with real power behind them.

 

[FrenchBassQC]

I recently bought a Darkglass DG112N and I am very impressed by the sound quality this cab is offering to my ears and my taste anyway. The

frequency response (-10dB) 36Hz – 15kHz​

The cab is 8omh and rated at 500W.

 

[Jefenator]

I would concur that real lows don't matter... until I play out with the Acme and all that goes out the window. (I just have the Low-B1 so it can't do too much damage. It sure sounds fabulous, though and power is not a problem these days.)
I do agree with @brianrost that HPF is very useful for double bass but I've never felt a need to go out of my way to incorporate it with bass guitar.

 

[Alban]

I recently bought a Darkglass DG112N and I am very impressed by the sound quality this cab is offering to my ears and my taste anyway. The

frequency response (-10dB) 36Hz – 15kHz​

The cab is 8omh and rated at 500W.

Yep, and that means that the low end will probably start to roll off at 50 or 60 Hz.

 

[gtirard]

I've found the Barefaced Super Compact to give me just the low end response I love (without any HPF), and it's extremely efficient/loud as well.
I know the Big Baby and the Big Twin go down even lower but I never tried them.

 

[Hollowway]

Thanks, guys. I am actually looking at Phil Jones stuff, so nice to hear about that. I can get a cheaper little cab, like the TC electronics 2x8, but the frequency response isn't as good as the PJ 27. Plus, Phil jones is known to be a solid contender.
I have no immediate needs for playing out, so this will be for home, but I don't want to waste money on something that won't sound good or inspiring.

FWIW, I have a Mike Arnopol cab which does get really low. I just want another, smaller cab for inside the house in a smaller room.

 

[DJ Bebop]

When I set HPF for the signal which is sent to FOH, I stay below 80 Hz (usually around 50-60Hz).

When my rig carries the room, I might set the HPF anywhere between 30 and 100Hz-depending on room acoustics.

When I apply HPF to my rig (after DI send to FoH), I might set it as high as 190Hz.

Yep

If I'm play though a nice FOH system with subs already. I'll run my HPF kinda high like that to hear my little rig clearer on stage through the subs and backwash of the FOH. I almost get a bi-amp effect that way

 

[monsterthompson]

Wouldn't a behavior/benefit of an external HPF be that it reduces the selected frequencies before they hit the amplifier, resulting in more available headroom? Depending on pedal order and signal chain, a HPF would potentially alter the behaviors of drive and compression pedals after it in the chain. Using the speaker cab as the "filter" for deep lows wouldn't produce similar results. That of course begs the question - are those the results you want?