Onboard wireless...

[Sundogue]

I'm going to be wiring up my Samson wireless into my Washburn active 5 string. I've done this on another (passive) bass and it works great! But before I left the transmitter in a position where I could access the battery and on/off switch without having to pull the wireless or open the cavity completely, and I did not need to worry about draining an Active circuit's 9 volt battery.

Now because this bass is Active, anytime a plug is inserted into the bass' jack it will drain the battery.

I plan on wiring the transmitter's jack leads directly to the bass' jack. I will be wiring up the transmitter's battery terminals to a battery compartment (single AAA battery) and having an on/off switch to kill a battery lead to the wireless (because the Samson's transmitter will be inside the cavity and I will have no access to it's on/off switch) thus turning off the wireless inside.

My question is, if I solder the transmitter jack leads to the bass' jack, will killing the battery to the transmitter be enough to also kill the bass' jack connection so it doesn't drain my
Active's 9 volt battery, or will I need another switch to kill that connection also?

I know that if left plugged in (even without a power source) the Active battery will drain, and I'm assuming that soldered leads from the transmitter to the bass jack would probably be the same as plugging a cable in the jack, would killing the transmitter be enough? Correct me if wiring to the jack leads is the same as leaving it plugged in. I'm not sure, but I think it is.

Here's the transmitter circuit board outside it's case...

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[line6man]

I'm a bit confused on what you trying to do.

If you are adding a wireless transmitter inside of the bass, what are you doing inserting cables into the jack?

I think the best way of doing this is to add in a push/pull or mini toggle switch to turn the power on and off for both the bass and the wireless.

The jack works by shorting the ring terminal to the sleeve terminal when a mono cable is inserted.
The negative from the battery is shorted to ground which powers on the preamp.
If you want to put the transmitter's power on this switch too, just as long as the negative on the battery is meant to contact the basses ground, then that's fine.
But if you have a wireless transmitter directly in the bass, why would you insert a cable into the jack?

 

[Sundogue]

I'm a bit confused on what you trying to do.

If you are adding a wireless transmitter inside of the bass, what are you doing inserting cables into the jack?

I think the best way of doing this is to add in a push/pull or mini toggle switch to turn the power on and off for both the bass and the wireless.

The jack works by shorting the ring terminal to the sleeve terminal when a mono cable is inserted.
The negative from the battery is shorted to ground which powers on the preamp.
If you want to put the transmitter's power on this switch too, just as long as the negative on the battery is meant to contact the basses ground, then that's fine.
But if you have a wireless transmitter directly in the bass, why would you insert a cable into the jack?

I'm not inserting a cable into the jack when the wireless is hooked up. I just want to know if wiring it directly to the jack is the same as a cable being inserted.

And yes I want to put an on/off switch in to kill the wireless, but also kill the connection to the bass' jack (if direct wiring is the same as a cable inserted).

What's the best wiring for that then?

I would think the transmitter's battery ground is tied to the sleeve (-) of the transmitter's jack plug (which would be going through the bass' input jack sleeve connection) wouldn't it?

Here's another pic of the the Samson transmitter...

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[sunbeast]

An active bass uses a stereo plug to turn the connect/disconnect the battery- a stereo jack has a sleeve and tip connection like a mono jack, but also a 3rd ring connection that the battery's negative lead attaches to. Plugging a normal mono instrument cable into this stereo jack simply connects that 3rd ring to the sleeve connection, which is the ground (or common) connection which "turns the battery on".
So wiring the +/- from the wireless will not turn on the battery from the preamp. In order to do this, you would either have to plug a dummy mono plug into the jack on your bass or wire the battery on/off from the preamp to a switch instead of the jack. It would probably be possible to wire both the wireless on/off and preamp on/off to the same switch...

Karl

 

[line6man]

An active bass uses a stereo plug to turn the connect/disconnect the battery- a stereo jack has a sleeve and tip connection like a mono jack, but also a 3rd ring connection that the battery's negative lead attaches to. Plugging a normal mono instrument cable into this stereo jack simply connects that 3rd ring to the sleeve connection, which is the ground (or common) connection which "turns the battery on".
So wiring the +/- from the wireless will not turn on the battery from the preamp. In order to do this, you would either have to plug a dummy mono plug into the jack on your bass or wire the battery on/off from the preamp to a switch instead of the jack. It would probably be possible to wire both the wireless on/off and preamp on/off to the same switch...

Karl

What he said.

All you need to do is wire the connection that normally went to the ring terminal to one edge of the switch, and ground the center terminal of the switch.
That will make an on/off switch.

 

[Sundogue]

I don't mind adding another switch.

Let me see if I have this straight...

The switch on my transmitter is hard wired, so I can only put in an on/off switch to make the battery connection turn on and off (because I can't access the transmitter's on/off switch inside the cavity).

So...I could wire up this one switch just for the on/off of the transmitter itself.

But, in order for the transmitter to function on my active bass it has to connect to the positive and negative terminals on the bass' jack, AND also connect to the bass' jack on the negative terminal, correct?

A mono plug, which only has positive (tip) and negative (sleeve) connects the negative and ground together in the jack and that is what turns on the preamp, correct?

If that is the case, can I add another on/off switch that goes between the ground on the bass' jack ground to the bass' jack negative? So when I want to use the internal wireless I turn on the wireless with one switch, and then make the connection to the preamp with the other?

Does that make any sense? I don't care if I have two switches...that's fine with me.

 

[Sundogue]

What he said.

All you need to do is wire the connection that normally went to the ring terminal to one edge of the switch, and ground the center terminal of the switch.
That will make an on/off switch.

So if I add another switch, I need a three terminal switch (I only have a two terminal on/off for the transmitter battery connection) and then run my transmitter's negative wire (that would go to the bass' jack negative terminal) to one edge of the switch and then the middle one to the ground of the bass' jack (where the ground wire to the preamp is connected)?

Sorry, I'm a little slow with wiring...but I understand some basics. This was easier with my passive bass, but I know it's doable.

 

[line6man]

I don't mind adding another switch.

Let me see if I have this straight...

The switch on my transmitter is hard wired, so I can only put an on/off switch to make the battery connection to turn it on and off (because I can't access the transmitter's on/off switch inside the cavity).

So...I could wire up this one switch just for the on/off of the transmitter itself.

But, in order for the transmitter to function on my active bass it has to connect to the positive and negative terminals on the bass' jack, AND also connect to the bass' jack on the negative terminal, correct?

A mono plug, which only has positive (tip) and negative (sleeve) connects the negative and ground together in the jack and that is what turns on the preamp, correct?

If that is the case, can I add another on/off switch that goes between the ground on the bass' jack ground to the bass' jack negative? So when I want to use the internal wireless I turn on the wireless with one switch, and then make the connection to the preamp with the other?

Does that make any sense? I don't care if I have two switches...that's fine with me.

Ok, do it like this:

Wire the input of the transmitter to the jack, so that the bass is hardwired into the transmitter.

Next, connect the negative battery terminal of the transmitter as well as the negative battery terminal for the preamp to one edge of your switch.
Connect the center terminal of the switch to the nearest ground point, or just to the sleeve terminal on the jack.

You will have a master on/off switch this way.

 

[Sundogue]

Ok, do it like this:

Wire the input of the transmitter to the jack, so that the bass is hardwired into the transmitter.

Next, connect the negative battery terminal of the transmitter to the ring terminal on the output jack, along with the existing negative battery terminal for the basses preamp.

Now connect the ring terminal to one edge of your switch.
Connect the center terminal of the switch to the nearest ground point, or just to the sleeve terminal on the jack.

You will have a master on/off switch this way.

This solution is so much more simple. But I need a three terminal on/off switch then, correct?

 

[line6man]

This solution is so much more simple. But I need a three terminal on/off switch then, correct?

Edited it to make it even simpler...
Read my above post.

As far as the switch, an SPST, SPDT, DPST, or DPDT switch will work.
It's a simple on/off.

 

[Sundogue]

Ok, do it like this:

Wire the input of the transmitter to the jack, so that the bass is hardwired into the transmitter.

Next, connect the negative battery terminal of the transmitter as well as the negative battery terminal for the preamp to one edge of your switch.
Connect the center terminal of the switch to the nearest ground point, or just to the sleeve terminal on the jack.

You will have a master on/off switch this way.

I think I'm getting it, but I'm still confused on one point.

I was going to wire a battery compartment to the original battery terminals of the transmitter (for easier access to the battery) and then install a switch between one of the leads to make it an on/off switch for the transmitter. Otherwise the transmitter will always be on when a battery is installed.

If I connect the negative battery terminal of the transmitter's compartment box to the switch, how does it then connect back to the negative battery terminal of the transmitter itself?

Do I then run a wire from the other terminal on the switch to both a common ground AND the transmitter's negative terminal?

And what about the Preamp's negative battery terminal? Does that come back via the other terminal on the switch like the negative terminal of the transmitter itself?

I know I'm probably confusing myself here.

 

[line6man]

I think I'm getting it, but I'm still confused on one point.

I was going to wire a battery compartment to the original battery terminals of the transmitter (for easier access to the battery) and then install a switch between one of the leads to make it an on/off switch for the transmitter. Otherwise the transmitter will always be on when a battery is installed.

If I connect the negative battery terminal of the transmitter's compartment box to the switch, how does it then connect back to the negative battery terminal of the transmitter itself?

Do I then run a wire from the other terminal on the switch to both a common ground AND the transmitter's negative terminal?

And what about the Preamp's negative battery terminal? Does that come back via the other terminal on the switch like the negative terminal of the transmitter itself?

I know I'm probably confusing myself here.

Ok, based on what your trying to do, here is a diagram.
You need either a DPST or DPDT switch

 

[Sundogue]

I'm still not sure where the battery box fits in, or how to wire it up so that the battery being in doesn't turn it on. Regardless of what leads go to the switch, if it isn't in line from one of the battery compartment leads to the transmitter battery terminals, the wireless will be "on" because the transmitter's own on/off switch is set to on (because I can't get to it easily).

I can't access the wireless transmitter's on/off switch inside the cavity without removing the cavity cover. So in the diagram below I wanted to put a switch inline on the positive (or negative) lead from the battery box to the transmitter. Without the switch, if a battery is in it, it's on. The switch would kill the battery connection to turn it off.

So given what I have and where I need to get to, to have the Active jack wired up so that it can be turned on, can I wire this up with only one switch, or do I need two?

Could I add another switch and use it to connect the Negative terminal on the bass jack to the Ground terminal on the bass jack? On, the switch closes the connection (making it appear as if a cable was plugged in) and Off would simply break the connection?

Then one switch would be just for turning on the wireless and the other for turning on the Preamp. I'm sure there is a simpler way to do this, but the key here is that my wireless is switched to ON permanently inside the cavity and the switch will just complete the battery connection to turn it on.

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[line6man]

I'm still not sure where the battery box fits in, or how to wire it up so that the battery being in doesn't turn it on. Regardless of what leads go to the switch, if it isn't in line from one of the battery compartment leads to the transmitter battery terminals, the wireless will be "on" because the transmitter's own on/off switch is set to on (because I can't get to it easily).

I can't access the wireless transmitter's on/off switch inside the cavity without removing the cavity cover. So in the diagram below I wanted to put a switch inline on the positive (or negative) lead from the battery box to the transmitter. Without the switch, if a battery is in it, it's on. The switch would kill the battery connection to turn it off.

So given what I have and where I need to get to, to have the Active jack wired up so that it can be turned on, can I wire this up with only one switch, or do I need two?

Could I add another switch and use it to connect the Negative terminal on the bass jack to the Ground terminal on the bass jack? On, the switch closes the connection (making it appear as if a cable was plugged in) and Off would simply break the connection?

Then one switch would be just for turning on the wireless and the other for turning on the Preamp. I'm sure there is a simpler way to do this, but the key here is that my wireless is switched to ON permanently inside the cavity and the switch will just complete the battery connection to turn it on.

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Your really overthinking this...

Look at the diagram i posted. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

When the switch is on, the preamp and transmitter are on. When the switch is off, there is no power to the preamp and transmitter.
If you want independent power switches, you can use two SPST or SPDT switches instead of the DPDT.

When the power is off, it doesn't matter whether the transmitter's internal power switch is on or off, the battery will be removed from the circuit.

The battery box *is* the battery.

 

[Sundogue]

Your really overthinking this...

Look at the diagram i posted. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

When the switch is on, the preamp and transmitter are on. When the switch is off, there is no power to the preamp and transmitter.
If you want independent power switches, you can use two SPST or SPDT switches instead of the DPDT.

When the power is off, it doesn't matter whether the transmitter's internal power switch is on or off, the battery will be removed from the circuit.

The battery box *is* the battery.

OK...I think I'm getting it (sorry I'm slow with this...thanks for being patient)...

On the Transmitter side, The Positive battery terminal is connected to the Positive on the Battery box and then to the Switch. But the Negative is going straight from the Transmitter Negative Terminal directly to the switch (bypassing the battery box), correct?

Then from the Preamp side, the Positive from the Preamp's battery connection is going to the switch also. Do I do anything with the Preamp's negative terminal or battery connection...or just leave it as is? I'm guessing that the Preamp's Positive is just feeding the switch so when the switch is "On" it closes the circuit and activates the Preamp?

Then the Ground completes the circuit for both when the switch is on?

 

[line6man]

OK...I think I'm getting it (sorry I'm slow with this...thanks for being patient)...

On the Transmitter side, The Positive battery terminal is connected to the Positive on the Battery box and then to the Switch. But the Negative is going straight from the Transmitter Negative Terminal directly to the switch (bypassing the battery box), correct?

Then from the Preamp side, the Positive from the Preamp's battery connection is going to the switch also. Do I do anything with the Preamp's negative terminal or battery connection...or just leave it as is? I'm guessing that the Preamp's Positive is just feeding the switch so when the switch is "On" it closes the circuit and activates the Preamp?

Then the Ground completes the circuit when the switch is on?

Ok, For the transmitter, the battery box's + goes to the transmitters + terminal.
The - terminal of the battery box goes to the switch, and then the switch goes to the transmitter's - terminal.

For the preamp, the + on the battery goes to the + terminal on the preamp. The batteries - terminal goes to the switch, then the switch goes to ground.

There is no - terminal on the preamp. It uses the same ground that the audio uses.

 

[Sundogue]

Ok, For the transmitter, the battery box's + goes to the transmitters + terminal.
The - terminal of the battery box goes to the switch, and then the switch goes to the transmitter's - terminal.

For the preamp, the + on the battery goes to the + terminal on the preamp. The batteries - terminal goes to the switch, then the switch goes to ground.

There is no - terminal on the preamp. It uses the same ground that the audio uses.

Eureka! I actually get it now.

Thank you so much for all your time explaining this to me. It does make sense to me now. I just needed to grasp the idea of completing the circuit.

I'll let you know how it goes.

EDIT: Now that you've given me step by step instructions, looking back at your diagram made me think...Well, duh! I see your diagram is laid out perfectly, I just didn't read it right. Thanks again.

 

[Sundogue]

The wireless is installed and works like a charm. It has a single on/off switch on the front of the bass that controls the wireless transmitter as well as turning the Active Preamp on and off. Thanks to line6man for all of your help with this.

The control cavity was a mess to being with, but there was room for the transmitter. I can now simply use my wireless by flipping one switch. No more plugging in and turning on, turning off and unplugging to save the batteries (Transmitter and Preamp), bumping the sensitive wireless antenna on things or worrying about the annoying "pop" or "hiss" from forgetting to mute first.

The transmitter battery lasts me about one full gig plus a couple of rehearsals so I only need to open the velcroed cavity cover to change the battery for it about once a week, if that.

Again, here's the transmitter (circuit board and antenna) out of it's original casing...

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Below is the modified transmitter (runs between the red lines) plus the added battery pack mounted onto the transmitter. The battery leads of the transmitter are in the empty side of the double AAA battery box under some electrical tape (only one AAA is needed). The transmitter rests on some foam under it and is velcroed on two sides.

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and here is how I now connect/disconnect my bass to my bass amp...

Switch down, Wireless Transmitter on / Preamp on.

Switch up, Wireless Transmitter off / Preamp off.

Switch is mounted in the middle of the bass' 4 control knobs to avoid hitting it accidentally (I seldom change my bass settings).

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[RumbleBeeAL]

Make/Model of the wireless transmitter/receiver package?

I imagine that you can still use a standard 1/4" patch cord for a wired connection in the event the battery goes dead?

Have you considered running the entire electrics off of the 9VDC battery? You may need to install another component (voltage regulator RS p/n:LM7803 or two high wattage resistors to divide voltage down to ~1.8VDC) for this concept to work. With my Laklands, it would be preferred since the 9VDC battery has it's own compartment thus making it a cleaner install.

In any event, nice work!!!

 

[Sundogue]

Make/Model of the wireless transmitter/receiver package?

I imagine that you can still use a standard 1/4" patch cord for a wired connection in the event the battery goes dead?

Have you considered running the entire electrics off of the 9VDC battery? You may need to install another component (voltage regulator RS p/n:LM7803 or two high wattage resistors to divide voltage down to ~1.8VDC) for this concept to work. With my Laklands, it would be preferred since the 9VDC battery has it's own compartment thus making it a cleaner install.

In any event, nice work!!!

Thanks. I couldn't have done it (well, using one switch anyway) without line6man's help. I'm not all that knowledgeable at wiring. This forum is THE best for getting the right answers to all things bass. So a big thanks to all that helped me with this.

It's the tiny Samson Airline wireless.

NOTE: Lots of people have had issues with it, but I discovered a design flaw in it that contributed to the pops, crackles, drop outs and other problems. The flexible antenna is only connected via one solder joint on the end of the transmitter and there is little to prevent it from moving around inside the case. It's the movement that contributes to the problems. When I took it apart and got it anchored properly and then taped a rigid rod to the antenna ALL of the problems went away. Of course, making it an onboard wireless accomplishes that and more.

I'm fine with using the AAA for the wireless and the 9v for the Preamp. It is packed in there, but honestly I could clean most of that up by simply shortening the miles of existing wiring in there. It all fits and nothing more will go in there.

Yes, the bass' output jack is still fully functional. In addition to turning the wireless on and off, the Master On/Off switch wiring only activates the Preamp by shorting the negative to ground and doesn't inhibit the use of a normal instrument cable.