Online materials: lost the forest for the trees.....

[Studiostevus]

Hi,
My first post, I signed up after lurking for a while because I am stuck and need your help.

I have been playing for a year now, and have been having weekly lessons. Unfortunately I live (temporarily) in a small country in which there is no musical education system (not a music community) whatsoever. My teacher is a guitar player, and I suspect is self-taught. In any case, he can't teach me much more than going through the Ed Friedland 'method' books with me (currently in the third book).

I am considering stopping the lessons and going to a fully 'online' educational system. Unfortunately, I have lost sight of the forest for the trees: guys like Mark from talkingbass.net and Scott from scottsbasslessons.com have put so much material on YouTube out there, that I don't know where to start and/or to focus on. Example: I may see something on scales one day, on ghost notes the next, and slapping the next day. In the end I will learn nothing.

What I need is a roadmap or path that will help me to progress in a structured way, starting with where I stand now, moving along in logical steps. Does anyone know whether such a thing exists? I have not yet signed up for the paid scottsbasslessons.com because I fear I could be equally lost in the piles of material n there....

Thanks a lot!

 

[fendermademygibson]

Check out studybass.com.

I found it to be very helpful.

Good luck.

 

[Mushroo]

I have been playing for 25 years and my "roadmap" has always been simply: to be able to play my favorite songs by my favorite musicians (and maybe even write a few songs of my own).

I am concerned that you didn't even mention songs once in your post. You talk about learning scales, ghost notes, slapping, etc. but... how many songs do you know, and what % of your practice time do you spend learning more songs by ear? If you were at a show and the bassist got sick, could you jump on stage and take over?

 

[Studiostevus]

I have been playing for 25 years and my "roadmap" has always been simply: to be able to play my favorite songs by my favorite musicians (and maybe even write a few songs of my own).

I am concerned that you didn't even mention songs once in your post. You talk about learning scales, ghost notes, slapping, etc. but... how many songs do you know, and what % of your practice time do you spend learning more songs by ear? If you were at a show and the bassist got sick, could you jump on stage and take over?

Good point... Add that to the list of things I am unclear about. I read a lot about people 'regretting' they focused too much on songs and not on theory. You just asked me the questions I want to know. Say on average I have 1 hour to practice per day. What % should I spend learning/playing songs vs. technique vs. theory etc.? Good question, do you have an answer?

 

[fearceol]

I would add a "+1" to both the "Study Bass" site and to what Mushroo says about simply playing music. IMO developing your ear by playing along to music/songs is every bit as important as learning theory. Do you include this as part of your practice session ? If not, it is a good place to start.

Having said the above, I agree with you that a lot of the on line lessons (especially on You Tube) are pretty scattered, i.e. they are "one off's" where nothing comes either before or after. One exception that I came across on You Tube is linked below. You could start at the beginning or jump in where you feel appropriate.

Finally...dont forget to put what you have learned into action...by playing songs/music. After all...this is what it is all about !!!!


Learn Bass Guitar - YouTube

 

[fearceol]

Say on average I have 1 hour to practice per day. What % should I spend learning/playing songs vs. technique vs. theory etc.?

IMO all of the above are important and deserve equal attention. Replace "vs" with "&". I usually leave the playing along part until last, as a kind of "reward" or chilling out section.

 

[Mushroo]

Good point... Add that to the list of things I am unclear about. I read a lot about people 'regretting' they focused too much on songs and not on theory. You just asked me the questions I want to know. Say on average I have 1 hour to practice per day. What % should I spend learning/playing songs vs. technique vs. theory etc.? Good question, do you have an answer?

See, it's not a "vs." question, to me, "learning a song" means also learning the techniques and theory used in that song. Like when I learn a new song, I don't just look at a TAB that shows me where to wiggle me fingers. I want to know: what is the chord progression? what is the rhythm? what is the melody? what are the lyrics? can I play it in all 12 keys? can I improvise a solo over the changes?

Since you are specifically looking for online resources I recommend going to Youtube and searching for phrases like "isolated bass line" or "famous bass lines" or "best rock songs of all time" and start learning to play what you hear.

So, I would say if I had 60 minutes to practice, I would spend 5 minutes warming up, and 55 minutes learning songs (which includes learning the music by ear, analyzing the harmony, singing the lyrics, slowly working through difficult technical passages with a metronome, listening back to a recording of myself to check for mistakes, etc.). Learning 1 simple pop/rock song per hour practice session is about my pace; it might take you a bit more or less time depending on where you're at.

That's just me, though--your teacher might recommend a different approach based on your individual needs and goals.

 

[MalcolmAmos]

Forrest for the trees - Understand where you are coming from as I've asked that same question.

... I am considering stopping the lessons and going to a fully 'online' educational system. Unfortunately, I have lost sight of the forest for the trees: guys like Mark from talkingbass.net and Scott from scottsbasslessons.com have put so much material on YouTube out there, that I don't know where to start and/or to focus on. Example: I may see something on scales one day, on ghost notes the next, and slapping the next day. In the end I will learn nothing.

As to the lessons. My teachers would cover me up with so much homework assignments and related material that I would have to stop lessons for several months just to catch up. After catching up I'd go back for more lessons. I had to digest what I had been given. This music thing is best taken in small bites, enough to satisfy our hunger, but not so much at one time that it makes us sick.

What I need is a roadmap or path that will help me to progress in a structured way, starting with where I stand now, moving along in logical steps. Does anyone know whether such a thing exists? I have not yet signed up for the paid scottsbasslessons.com because I fear I could be equally lost in the piles of material n there.... Thanks a lot!

I really only use about 30% of what I have been taught. You do not have to know all of what is out there to function in a band setting. To that road map...

Music is melody, harmony and rhythm. I leave the melody to the solo instruments and by now I assume you have your scales into muscle memory and know where the notes are on your fretboard. I know of no musical instrument that does not start you out running your scales. Its a right of passage thing that lets us find where the notes are on our instrument. If that has not happened yet - that is the first thing to work on. Next is harmony.

Harmony. 90% of what we do revolves around harmony. Do you understand how to harmonize a melody? If not that is the next thing on your list. The songwriter places chords in the song so that they share like notes with the melody and in doing that harmony happens. If we play the notes of those harmonizing chords we two harmonize with the melody and end up sounding good. So chord tones and how many of the chord tones need to be in our bass line is next on the agenda. When you have that under control rhythm comes into the picture.

Rhythm. Rhythm sets one style of music from another. The melody and harmony follow the same set of "rules" for any style of music, it's the rhythm that sets one style apart from another style. So locking with the kick drum enters into the picture. Actually it is more than just locking with the kick drum. Everyone should be locking with each other. With out a drummer you become the beat master, and I do not care how good your internal clock is it's not good enough to be the beat master on it's own. In walks the metronome and drum tracks. Can you look at sheet music (lead sheet, fake chord, whatever) and count out the beats, i.e. get a feel for the song? That's where you start with rhythm, of course IMO.

Now pulling all three together is a journey best learned by playing with live musicians. Do what ever it takes to hook up with other musicians and play music with them. The playing with other musicians will point you to what other "things" you need to be working on.

Good luck.

 

[Minus]

IMO the best in structured on-line bass education is Jim Stinnett. Go to Stinnett Music and click on On-Line school.

All the best

 

[Studiostevus]

So, I would say if I had 60 minutes to practice, I would spend 5 minutes warming up, and 55 minutes learning songs (which includes learning the music by ear, analyzing the harmony, singing the lyrics, slowly working through difficult technical passages with a metronome, listening back to a recording of myself to check for mistakes, etc.). Learning 1 simple pop/rock song per hour practice session is about my pace; it might take you a bit more or less time depending on where you're at.

Thanks, your answer made it clear to me that it is ok and even very beneficial to just practice by playing songs. That being said, I do feel I should also work on understanding what I'm playing and why. I love those players on YouTube that can improvise on any song, and would like to play like that. Hence, scales, chords, harmony.

Music is melody, harmony and rhythm. I leave the melody to the solo instruments and by now I assume you have your scales into muscle memory and know where the notes are on your fretboard. I know of no musical instrument that does not start you out running your scales. Its a right of passage thing that lets us find where the notes are on our instrument. If that has not happened yet - that is the first thing to work on. Next is harmony.

I'm not there yet.... Don't have instant command of the full fretboard. Furthermore (and as a result of not knowing the fretboard well enough), I play a scale as a finger pattern, rather than as a scale. First thing to work on.

 

[lyla1953]

TMBG by Roy Vogt

 

[MalcolmAmos]

se

.............. I'm not there yet.... Don't have instant command of the full fretboard. Furthermore (and as a result of not knowing the fretboard well enough), I play a scale as a finger pattern, rather than as a scale. First thing to work on.

I two play a scale as a finger pattern, see if this makes since. Go to post # 4 on this string; How to get started? | TalkBass.com Copy it and have it in front of you as you read this post.

There are at least three places we can use the major scale box pattern and play a scale pattern on our neck. Take C for example:

C @ the 3rd fret 3rd string.
C @ the 8th fret 4th string.
C @ the 15th fret 3rd string.
​

The major scale box pattern works at each of those locations. Place the root and then the root's scale degrees are always relative to the root's position - at all three of those locations.

A 2 is always up two frets same string - from the root note.
A 3 is always up a string and back one fret - from the root note.
A 4 is always up a string same fret - from the root note.
A 5 is always up a string and over two frets or down a string same fret - from the root note.
A 6 is always up two strings and back one fret - from the root note.
A 7 is always up two strings and over one fret - from the root note. .
The octave 8 is always up two strings and over two frets - from the root note.

Now listen to what Scott has to say about the 4 + 2 pattern.

If I'm on a C and want an F I know it's going to be up a string same fret. Because F is the 4th scale degree of C. Knowing that and knowing the scale pattern can be placed at least three places up my neck kinda opened up my fretboard for me. Problem being you have to "see" this for it to click in. Now that we are here I'm going to take you one more step deeper...... Not necessary you go this deep, up to you.

Now where this really clicks in is if you have your sheet music transposed to Nashville numbers. Scale degrees are in Arabic (1, 2, 3) numbers. Nashville numbers are in Arabic also. Once you start thinking in scale degree numbers, Nashville numbers are a logical next step. IMO.



Nashville numbers are in the key of one. Place the one (root) and off you go. Vocalist says; "A's too high lets do it today in D". No problem place the root note of your major scale box over the D note on your 3rd or 4th string and you will now be playing in the D key. Three weeks from today a new vocalist wants this song in G; again no problem, find a G on your fretboard and play the box pattern from that G. You are now in G.

Good luck.

 

[GastonD]

Studiostevus, you never mentioned if you were looking for a free of charge content, or does paying also come into equation.
In the former case, talkingbass.net is an excellent resource, and if you check out the website a little more carefully, you will see Marc has a study roadmap of sorts there.
Ig you are willing to pay, I cannot recommend Cliff Engel's courses at instituteofbass.com enough. It is really hard to beat the value for money on those, as you get full, well-structured 12-week courses for only $29 (each). Bear in mind, those are not video lessons, but packages of text, notation+tablature (where applicable) and the accompanying mp3 files. The courses are very comprehensive and in detail, plus you get to learn some cool songs (of jazz variety) along the way.

That said, if you are finishing Ed's books, then maybe you really ought to work on you repertoire.

 

[Hedgehog_SBM]

Its encouraging to hear that people suggest playing songs. Ive done a lot of that. In fact, Ive learned so many songs that I cant recall them all! I have TAB or chord sheets for them. But if I dont practice the songs for a while, I have to go back and re-learn them many times. Is that normal? Or, is there a way to remember them more easily?

Hedgehog

 

[pcake]

my husband is one of the fastest and best guitar players i've worked with (it's how we met), and he learned 100% studying and learning songs note-for-note, than sometimes adapting them.

yes, it's normal to forget them over time if you don't play them, although i find the songs i spent the most time with i'm the least likely to forget. i was in an originals band for several years in the late 90s/ early 2000s, and we played those songs over and over and over, and i can bring them back to memory much more easily than a song i learned and played for one year ten years ago.

 

[Studiostevus]

Studiostevus, you never mentioned if you were looking for a free of charge content, or does paying also come into equation.
In the former case, talkingbass.net is an excellent resource, and if you check out the website a little more carefully, you will see Marc has a study roadmap of sorts there.
Ig you are willing to pay, I cannot recommend Cliff Engel's courses at instituteofbass.com enough. It is really hard to beat the value for money on those, as you get full, well-structured 12-week courses for only $29 (each). Bear in mind, those are not video lessons, but packages of text, notation+tablature (where applicable) and the accompanying mp3 files. The courses are very comprehensive and in detail, plus you get to learn some cool songs (of jazz variety) along the way.

That said, if you are finishing Ed's books, then maybe you really ought to work on you repertoire.

Yes, paid resources is surely an option. It looks like Roy Vogt and Cliff Engels online courses may be what I am looking for, as they provide a clear structure to it. Is there anything similar perhaps that leans towards funk?

 

[GastonD]

Yesterday I got distracted by life, so did not finish the post. Cliff offers packages, which means you can purchase the course with the addition of Skype lessons/consultations to accompany your courses. I don;t know if it means anything, but upon the completion of all 5 available courses, he may issue a certificate.

Joe Hubbard is another great option, even if not strictly with funk proclivity...maybe more fusion
His Bassment program is excellent, especially if your only previous instruction is from Friedland's books. The material may look more or less easy at the beginning, but gets challenging very quickly. The thing is, you get a weekly lesson in the mail and work on it, not need to look around to figure out what comes next. And, there is the forum on his website to ask questions if you need. And the particular plus is that Joe covers some topics that the grand majority of other instructors do not, and in a way that is quite unique.

 

[fearceol]

Its encouraging to hear that people suggest playing songs. Ive done a lot of that. In fact, Ive learned so many songs that I cant recall them all! I have TAB or chord sheets for them. But if I dont practice the songs for a while, I have to go back and re-learn them many times. Is that normal? Or, is there a way to remember them more easily?

Hedgehog

I think, in earlier posts, what was meant by "learning " songs was....by ear...i.e. without the help of tabs or chord sheets. Granted, if you have not played a song for quite a while, you may have difficulty in playing it. IMO if you learn by ear then you wont have to work so hard to be able to play it again. Chord sheets can be helpful, but I have always regarded TABS as being best used very sparingly.

 

[mambo4]

guys like Mark from talkingbass.net and Scott from scottsbasslessons.com have put so much material on YouTube out there, that I don't know where to start and/or to focus on....
What I need is a roadmap or path that will help me to progress in a structured way...

Actually, I believe Mark Has laid out several series of lessons in a logical manner that you can progress through.
go to his you tube page and scroll down to the Playlist section. There are at least 9 different series of lessons covering various things.

If you are confused about what theory you should focus on see this post

 

[Studiostevus]

Actually, I believe Mark Has laid out several series of lessons in a logical manner that you can progress through.
go to his you tube page and scroll down to the Playlist section. There are at least 9 different series of lessons covering various things.

If you are confused about what theory you should focus on see this post

I've seen mark's lists of lessons. However he has categorized them per topic, rather than as a roadmap for beginning bass players.

To exemplify: If you would follow the playlist 'chords' you would learn chords and chords only. As a beginner, you would probably need more guidance on what to focus on at what stage of your development...

The linked post indeed gives a broad idea. Thanks