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Open A String Rattle and Action Issue

P

Pluckoff

Dec 28, 2021
131
128
#1
2021 G&L JB-2 Tribute

I purchased this guitar new about five months ago and it didn't have any string rattle until I changed strings a month ago. I installed RotoSound Roto 45-105 strings. I noticed the old strings felt a bit thicker, but with my lack of bass string guage experience I'm not sure which Guage they are exactly. I've tried a lot of truss-rod and string height combinations but the rattle open A strip rattle remains. Seems like the nut's A slot is a bit too deep. Should I try 50-105 strings or fill the A slot with super-glue and file?

JB-2 action issue:
I purchased a used Ibanez TMB100 two months ago. I installed D'Addario EXL160 Nickel Wound 45-105 strings, did a setup and intonation on it and it now it has really good low action. By comparison, no matter how I setup the JB-2 action I can't get it as low or have the same pop as the TMB100. Some of the pop I believe is in the differences between the two brands of strings and their composition. The D'addario's are definitely brighter and feel a bit smoother.

The JB-2 is solid, looks nice and sounds nice. I'm willing to put some money into it (if need be) to get the action as low as possible. Seeking recommendations on how to proceed?

 
#3
Pics. IMG_20220111_234042048.jpg IMG_20220111_234256810.jpg IMG_20220111_234335260.jpg IMG_20220111_234450948.jpg
 
#4
Yeah, that A slot looks a little low in comparison to the others. You could put some paper under it to lift it and see if this alleviates the problem. If it does you can build up the slot and recut it or replace the nut.

I wouldn't change strings just to suit the nut, go for the strings that feel good to you.
 
#5
Samatza said:
Yeah, that A slot looks a little low in comparison to the others. You could put some paper under it to lift it and see if this alleviates the problem. If it does you can build up the slot and recut it or replace the nut.

I wouldn't change strings just to suit the nut, go for the strings that feel good to you.
Click to expand...

I'll try that. Thank you.
 
#6
The A string looks like it's riding pretty high on the tuner peg despite having lots of wraps. Try loosening the string, pushing the wraps down towards the headstock, and holding them as you bring it back up to tune. Try to arrange it so the string leaves the peg right down near the headstock vs higher up on the post as it is now. This will improve the break angle over the nut - break angle being too low is a common source of rattle on Fender style headstocks.
 
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#8
I agree about it being a break angle issue. Try holding the string down just behind the nut and see if the rattle goes away. More wraps is the normal way to deal with this (crappy) design, but Fender also sells special washers with a little string holder on them. I don’t have a pic handy….
 
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#9
The Stealth string retainer:

Invalid Link Removed

There are lots of string retainer options out there but often you can solve it by fooling around with how the string is installed on the post, and then just live with the fact that you have to do that every time you change strings.
 
#10
dwizum said:
The A string looks like it's riding pretty high on the tuner peg despite having lots of wraps. Try loosening the string, pushing the wraps down towards the headstock, and holding them as you bring it back up to tune. Try to arrange it so the string leaves the peg right down near the headstock vs higher up on the post as it is now. This will improve the break angle over the nut - break angle being too low is a common source of rattle on Fender style headstocks.
Click to expand...
This is correct; but, the fault is the tuner peg itself, which has a center taper causing the windings to “push up.”

OP needs to change the tuners out for straight post tuners or add a headstock hold down. “A” strings on Fender type headstocks have this issue. The flat headstock was developed using straight post tuning gears; and the problem was avoided by winding the string, such that the final wrap was held tightly against the base of the post on the headstock, thus maxing the break angle. The tuning gears with centered tapers don’t belong on Fender 4 string headstocks without a string tree hold down. This is poor engineering found on budget basses. I would personally spend the money on new tuners; but, that’s me.
 
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#11
@dwizum, and @ctmullins have always provided me with solid advice with regards to building and troubleshooting bass things.

Does it rattle when fretting a note on the A string? If yes, it may be something else besides nut slot depth.

Pluckoff said:
I've tried a lot of truss-rod and string height combinations
Click to expand...
Did you do an accurate set up? Meaning did you measure the relief and set the action using appropriate measuring tools? 1mm or 1/64th" inch on your action can make a difference between string/fret rattle or not.

I would also check the nut slot depth / action at the nut with a feeler gauge (.022" between the string and first fret).

Is there possibly a high fret? I wouldn't expect that to be the case here, but it could happen.

I wonder if it's the saddle spring at the bridge that's rattling. I've had that happen before. It's annoying when playing unplugged, but not at all present when amplified.

With regards to action not being as low as you'd like, I recently added .25⁰ neck shims to some of my bolt on basses. That little bit of an angle allowed me to reduce the action by a few mm, which was all that's needed to go from low action to really low action. But first, if you haven't already, start with a proper set up with proper measuring tools.
 
#12
Thanks for the replies. I couple weeks I did use my thumb to push down on the A string behind the nut (info researched on this forum) to increase break angle and it did not effect rattling noise. This morning I tried what dwizum suggested and there is no change.
I added a bit paper under it per Samatza's advice and that solved the issue.
IMG_20220112_103700522.jpg
If I have the nut replaced which is the most durable replacement (Tusq, graphite, brass, bone, other)?

Also, what is a general price range for frets levelling/crowning/polish ?
 
#13
In my experience there are not a whole lot of practical durability differences between popular materials (bone, brass, graphtech) - they should all last close to "forever" if you're not a heavy player, or at least many years if you're putting lots of hours on the bass and doing lots of string changes. People have their favorite materials for different reasons, if you don't yet have a favorite then I would just ask the tech you have do the work what their favorite is, and why, and then base your decision on that.

General price ranges for fret work are hard to quote. It will vary. For instance if you're taking it to a guy who does hobby business repair work in his basement vs a full time pro repair shop. Some shops will list a set price for level/crown/polish and others will charge an hourly rate. Or at least they'll charge more than the flat rate if your bass is especially gross or the frets need lots of work. Some shops include setup and string change in the price, others don't (you will, of course, need a setup if fret work is done). A bass that's in reasonably good shape and reasonably clean (doesn't need half an hour of scrubbing to free the fretboard from finger gunk), taken to a competent full time tech with a good reputation will run $150-250 in my area.
 
#14
Thanks. I think I might have a graphite nut installed and go down to a slightly lighter gauge. The neck on this bass is still very clean. Another issue is the E string will not intonate properly. It's still sharp even with the saddle all the way back and the pickups adjusted properly (not too high). If I had a better idea what I was doing when I purchased this bass I might have opted for another brand. The under $450 choices were fairly limited at the local music stores (including GC) and this one felt and played very solid compared to the other basses I tried at the time. Mostly very good reviews online for this model and that had some influence on me.
 
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#15
You can check scale length to make sure the bridge is located properly. The other common factor for intonation problems are incorrect installation. Be sure you're setting the witness points - push down hard on the string right before and after the bridge saddle and nut, using your thumb, after bringing it up to pitch - but before making any other adjustments. Otherwise the string will have a gentle curve at those points instead of a nice clean slight kink - the curve can cause intonation challenges and other issues as it settles.
 
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#16
dwizum said:
You can check scale length to make sure the bridge is located properly. The other common factor for intonation problems are incorrect installation. Be sure you're setting the witness points - push down hard on the string right before and after the bridge saddle and nut, using your thumb, after bringing it up to pitch - but before making any other adjustments. Otherwise the string will have a gentle curve at those points instead of a nice clean slight kink - the curve can cause intonation challenges and other issues as it settles.
Click to expand...

Thanks to this forum I learned some of these tricks such as setting witness points and winding the strings to the base of the tuning posts a few days after installing the strings. The fact that I didn't know these things prior to and during installation may have contributed to the current issues?

I brought an acoustic guitar and a well made Les Paul copy to tech about thirty minutes from me. He replaced the nut on the acoustic and replaced the frets on the LP. On both guitars he did spot-on work, so I will bring this bass and the Ibanez (11th and 12th low frets) to him to see what he thinks. I brought a couple other guitars to a few local techs and they talked a good game but did little to solve the issues. Fortunately, they didn't charge much other than one guy who's a luthier, but couldn't even figure out the buzzing the arch-top guitar I brought him was coming from the pickup springs. He said he replaced the nut, but the color looked faded like it was the original and it didn't solve the issue anyway. I researched a lot and finally found a few threads that pointed to the pickup springs. I bought some surgical tube to replace the springs over a year ago and still haven't bothered to install them..lol. Now, I don't even hear the springs because I tuned them out while playing. One of the posts I read stated a good compromise is to install the tubing over the springs because apparently removing the springs and using tubing caused a noticeable dulling of tone for several people.

Anyway, I should probably take the plunge and invest in the necessary tools to service my guitars properly. I did try a neck reset on a Seagull S6 a few months ago and (not surprisingly) didn't go so well. I may approach it again at some point, but I don't have much hope for salvaging it.
 
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#18
I wouldn’t spend money on a nut just yet. You’ve got to get that A string down to the bottom of the tuner capstan to get the break angle as hard as possible. Even if you have to use a zip tie so the concave doesn’t keep forcing the string up.

I had the same issue with one and just made sure that the string end going down the hole was cut so the string wraps began at the middle of the concave and wrapped it down to the deck. Next string change, I didn’t cut very much off the A and just wrapped the schnizzle out of the capstan (post).

Concave capstans are no good on straight headstocks, as on Fender, etc.

Next string change…. Moar wraps!

But if you’re sure your nut isn’t cut right, then spend the money on a pro job.
 
#19
96tbird said:
I wouldn’t spend money on a nut just yet. You’ve got to get that A string down to the bottom of the tuner capstan to get the break angle as hard as possible. Even if you have to use a zip tie so the concave doesn’t keep forcing the string up.

I had the same issue with one and just made sure that the string end going down the hole was cut so the string wraps began at the middle of the concave and wrapped it down to the deck. Next string change, I didn’t cut very much off the A and just wrapped the schnizzle out of the capstan (post).

Concave capstans are no good on straight headstocks, as on Fender, etc.

Next string change…. Moar wraps!

But if you’re sure your nut isn’t cut right, then spend the money on a pro job.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure it's the nut, but I'm going to purchase the string retainer that dwizum linked previously before bringing it to the tech/owner.
 

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