Orange AD200 cab pairing. Need opinion.

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Fjbs85, Mar 8, 2019.

  1. Fjbs85


    Jul 22, 2016
    Hey guys. I've now own an Orange AD200 head, and currently running it through two GK 410RBH'S. Due to the cabs high wattage (800 watts/cab, 1600 total), I'm unable to get that true tube, high gain distortion without blasting ear drums and making everyone else unheard.
    I've been thinking about getting a different cab and just wanna know if anyone has had any experience playing through them. I've been looking at Ampeg, Orange obviously, but lately I've been looking at the GK 412 NEO.
    I do like having that more modern distortion sound, and the clarity you get with GKs. So I'm wondering if 1200 watts is still too high with the 412?
    I know try the whole try and locate one, and then play through it. I just wanted to hear if anyone has already done this, and get there opinion. Or just get an overall opinion on the subject itself.
  2. bassmachine2112


    Mar 23, 2008
    Hiho,I,m a long term Orange user so here,s a few observations of mine.
    Orange are very loud heads or should I say they are true watts quoted.
    Try one cab as it will reduce load to 8 ohms,less power.
    4x10 has a lot of speaker area,pushes lots of air,more so with 2.
    I use 1 OBC115 still bloody loud and lotsa love for the OBC115.
    Stick a sansamp or BDI21 in front of amp-Orange heads love a pedal in front of them,Geddy uses sansamps.
    Get some hearing protection if you are playing that loud and watch for brown notes.
    Watch your settings they produce a lot of bottom end which can overpower the growl.
    Enjoy the voice of the world.
  3. chaosMK


    May 26, 2005
    Albuquerque, NM
    Too much hip thrust
    Maybe look into that Orange Isobaric 2x12. If you are trying to get that tube overdrive with the power section involved there is no way to really do it quietly. A distortion or drive pedal can help but nothing is quite like the true tube earthquake distortion.
  4. Fjbs85


    Jul 22, 2016
    I’m not looking to be quieter, trust me haha my band is meant to be loud. I just wanna achieve that tone at a lower volume.
    I just think having the lower wattage cab will achieve that tone. I was hoping maybe someone has tried this combo. So we’ll see. I appreciate the input so far fellas
  5. Wasnex


    Dec 25, 2011

    The power rating of your cabs really has nothing to do with how much power the amp makes. The sensitivity of the cabs and how much power you feed them will determine the volume. The AD200B makes about 165W of clean power at either 8 or 4 ohms.

    The 410RBH cab is an 8 ohm cab that is spec'ed at 106dB for 1W/1M. I think GK might be generous with their sensitivity rating, but I will use it here. For each doubling of power the SPL will go up 3dB. If you add a second 410RBH the load becomes 4 ohms and the 165W of power is split evenly between cabs, so each cab has 82.5W of available clean power. Each cab has a bit more than 18dB of clean headroom over the 1W rating (106+18=124dB). Also because you are doubling the radiating surface with a second cab, you get +6dB from mutual coupling in the low end, which puts your SPL up around 130dB. This is before the output section starts to distort, and yes that is pretty darn loud.

    If you use just one 410RBH you should lose 3dB of clean headroom, so the amp will break up a bit earlier. If you decide to run just one cab, plug it into the 8 ohm output.

    Using cabs with a lower sensitivity rating will allow you to push the amp into output drive at a lower volume.
    Fjbs85, chaosMK and Bass_Pounder like this.
  6. Your initial question is a bit unclear. You say you want tube high gain distortion - that's easy - crank the AD200B gain control to maximum and turn the master control to the desired volume. That's how you get high gain distortion at any volume you like.
    Wasnex likes this.
  7. Fjbs85


    Jul 22, 2016
    For me, in order to get that distortion break up, I have to have the volume so high it’s overpowering everyone else in the mix.
    Meaning, I have to turn down to sit in the mix well. Therefore, losing that distortion breakup and having a clean tone.
    My thought process of switching to a lower wattage cab makes me think I can achieve that breakup at a volume thats reasonable in the mix.
    If I’m not making sense, sorry.
  8. bassmachine2112


    Mar 23, 2008
    Hiho that,s it in a nutshell-gain up ,volume down.With a preamp pedal you can dial in more hair without volume getting silly,remember your first in the firing line get hearing protection Orange gear goes very loud.
  9. You really don't want your cab to be creating any of the distortion. If the cab is being driven so hard that it's breaking up then it will probably pack up altogether fairly soon.
    If your bass is so low output that you can't get the amplifier's gain stage to distort then you need to add a boost through a pedal/preamp (there are dozens to choose from).
  10. If you are wanting to create output tube drive then set the master at maximum and use the gain to control volume.
    All the answers are listed above; preamp pedal, use one of your cabs only (two of your 410 can knock wallls down!), gain at maximum.
    Using only one cab will significantly reduce your volume.
    chaosMK likes this.
  11. MarkA

    MarkA In the doghouse. Supporting Member

    Sep 26, 2008
    I'm not that familiar with the AD200B (seen and heard them, just haven't played one -- well, maybe once, very briefly), so forgive me if I'm missing something.

    Assuming that you've messed with the Gain vs. Master volume settings and still haven't gotten the tone you want, it sounds like you might be looking for power tube distortion vs. just what's available from the preamp. If that's the case then, as stated by others, above, your cabs' power handling isn't the issue, it's their sensitivity/efficiency.

    The wattage rating on the cab is related how much power it will handle from your amp*, not how loud it will go with a certain amount of power. Assuming your cab will handle what the amp's putting out without getting unduly stressed, it's the efficiency that will determine how loud you can get, not the wattage rating on the cab.

    A new, energy-efficient, LED light bulb might hit 800 lumens with 10 Watts of power, where an older-style incandescent bulb might need 50 or 60 Watts to hit that.

    Speaker efficiency is typically (but not always) measured in decibels-per-Watt at 1 meter distance (dB/W/m).** A speaker listed at 90 dB/W/m should produce a sound pressure level of 90 decibels at a spot 1 meter in front of it with 1 Watt of input power. (It will sound louder up close and less loud farther away, obviously.)

    If you have two cabs rated at, say, 500 Watts, each, either should handle the full output of your amp (assuming the ratings are honest). If one is rated at 95 dB/W/m and the other is rated at 100 dB/W/m, the latter will go a lot louder.

    In any case, if what you're shooting for is the sound of the amp pushed (I'm not sure, but that's what it sounds like to me) but you can't push it with two cabs, try playing it through one. If the cab will handle it, you'll have to push the amp harder to hit the same volume level. You'll also lose some fullness in the lows/low mids and will probably have to boost the low EQ to get a similar tone (which will push both amp and cab harder). If you like the sound of your current cabs, it's worth a shot -- listen to the cab for signs of stress, though, particularly if you're cranking the amp -- the deep lows from some tube amps (don't know about the Orange, specifically) can put a lot of stress on a speaker, even if the wattage numbers aren't that high.

    I don't have much experience with GK cabs, but my brief (in-store) experiences with the Neo 410 left me with the impression that it was scooped and somewhat boomy -- by all accounts the Neo 12" cabs are tighter and better balanced. Given what you say, I'd try a 2x12 before a 4x12, or you might find yourself in the same boat you're in now. You can always get a second if you want. Ampeg/Orange cabs will probably also match the amp well (though I don't know how modern the tone from the Orange cabs would be).

    If you're looking to try something (very) different, I am a fan of the MAS (Michael Arnopol Soundworks) cabs. @thumbs&fingers played an AD200B with them for awhile, I think, and might be able to give you some insight. (I've played the MAS 48 he has for sale with a 150 Watt tube amp and thought it was killer -- it would definitely handle the output from your amp, but I don't know about its efficiency, one way or another.)

    For now, though, try the amp with one of your current cabs and see what you think.

    *, ** With power handling and efficiency, both, not everyone measures the same way -- sometimes there are small but noteworthy differences and sometimes major fudging. You can read up on this in a multitude of other threads, but good rules of thumb are to 1) look for RMS (vs. peak) wattage ratings, 2) take things with a grain of salt, and 3) use your ears -- if the cab sounds stressed, it probably is.
  12. Why not just use ONE of your 410s?

    I use this regularly, sounds great and I can get that power tube grind if I so desire, at not a huge volume
    Sparky Mark likes this.
  13. Fjbs85


    Jul 22, 2016
    I guess it’s just an image and ego stroke playing through a full stack.
    I appreciate all this input, I’m gonna try these ideas tonight at practice.
  14. LeftyD


    Feb 22, 2017
    Las Vegas
    Definitely an image. DSCN2531.JPG
    rodl2005 and Fjbs85 like this.
  15. Fjbs85


    Jul 22, 2016
    Can’t find any of those 810s around. Would love to try it out!
  16. abarson


    Nov 6, 2003
    Santa Cruz
    Stack both, but only hook up one. You get the visual gratification and may meet your tonal needs.
    Fjbs85 likes this.
  17. I’m all about the OBC810. Looks amazing, sounds amazing.

    rodl2005, Wasnex and Fjbs85 like this.