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Orange Hybrid build

A

alatham82

Mar 3, 2011
37
0
#1
Hi everybody, this is my first post.

I'm going to be building a short-scale bass in the coming months and I'd like some advice. I'll also use this thread to show off my progress.

So far, my coworker (who has graciously agreed to help me with the CNC work) and I have drawn the body out in Solidworks, though I think it will need some adjustment still. It's been inspired by the Fender Jaguar Bass and Gibson's EB-3. Although I looked at a photo of a Jag-Stang last night and I can see some similarities (but my body isnt' as off-balance as the Jag-Stang looks). I've attached a screen-cap of the Solidworks model.

The neck is going to be a Warmoth neck, 30" scale. Made of Wenge with a rosewood fretboard. I just ordered that, so I should see it within 6 weeks. I will leave the neck unfinished.

The body will be Mahogany, cut out using our CNC machines here at work. Which leads me to my question:

I want this bass to be Orange. The kind of Orange that might just kill people. You may be thinking Gretsch orange, but that's not quite enough. This is the kind of Orange that I want:
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

If that link doesn't work, I've attached one of the pics from it.

Before anyone posts it, I have indeed seen the Marcus Orange Lakland. It's gorgeous.

The big things is that I don't like gloss finishes. The Matte finish on that PRS is about as glossy as I can stand. I have a Carvin Jazz bass kit that I finished in Tung Oil (or some derivative) and I love the way it feels. It's not the prettiest bass around, but that's ok with me. So I want this new bass to have that same Orange tone from the link above, but I'm probably going to do a simpler finish. I was thinking Tru-oil (reduced to a satin sheen with steel wool), but I'm still jumping from option to option so I'm open to suggestion.

That guitar is clearly Mahogany, so I should be able get pretty close to that color. I assume I'll have to use a two-part bleach to lighten the wood before dying, then get an orange stain. I've found this, and I think it will work:
W. D. Lockwood Metal Complex Dyes at Tools for Working Wood

At work we use a clear acrylic finish that I could use as well, but it's super glossy, so I'd have to add a flattening agent to it and I'm not sure what to do about grain filling. I've read that I can leave the grain unfilled if I use a Tru-oil finish and get a real thin finish that still feels something like real wood. I love that feel on my other bass, but it's made of Alder and I'm not sure how well Mahogany will deal with a similar process.

So, any help I can get with picking a finish will be much appreciated.

-Andy
 

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#3
Hi Max,

That's a cool idea, although I don't think I'll be doing anything so intricate for my Orange Hybrid.

I think the way to get the finish on the guitar you posted you'd have to cut the body out without the design, stain it red, seal it, then cut the design out and stain and seal the black parts. Does that sound like the right order of steps?

Does anyone out there know how to get Mahogany to look really orange? Any thoughts on Tru-oil and whether or not I can leave the grain unfilled to get to feel like wood?
 
#4
Well, here we are 2 months later and this bass is getting pretty close. My wife and I just moved into a new house, so that sucked up a lot of my free time.

Unfortunately, I do not have a camera, so I have only a handful of progress pics (and none of them involve any sawdust or power tools :(). I've added all of the current photos to a Facebook album, which everyone should be able to access:
Andy's Orange Hybrid gallery

The story thus far is that my buddy and I got all the parts in and set up the CNC machine to cut out the body. But the CNC machine did not cut out the chamfered edges along the two horns correctly. My buddy was having a difficult time drawing the shapes out in SolidWorks, and I told him that I would hand shape them instead. So I used a couple of files, some sandpaper, and a lot of elbow grease to get those shaped out elegantly. I was also unhappy with how the tummy cut and forearm cut came out, so I did a lot of re-shaping there too. Other people have commented that this is the best part of building a bass, and now that I've done it myself, I have to agree.

As for the design, I had one major problem that needed to be solved: My favorite strings are DR black beauties. They only come in long-scale. Since this bass is a short scale, I had to get creative about how to mount the strings. You'll see in those photos that I routed an extra cavity in the back. The strings will be anchored in that cavity and then pulled through the body and into the bridge. This should give me about 34.5" of string run, which should be just enough to fit those DR strings on correctly.

I'm going to try a set of flats after a little while though, I've never used 'em before.

For the finish, I ended up not using any Tru-Oil at all. It darkened the finish too much to give me a nice orange on any of the test pieces I used. So I'm using Minwax Wipe-On Poly in clear satin. I did 2 coats of dye (15 drops of orange Trans-tint into 1 oz. water), then a sealer coat of the poly. Then 1 tinted coat (10 drops Trans-tint to 1 oz. poly). Then I topped that off with 3 thick coats of poly (applied with a foam brush) and 1 final rubbed-in coat of poly (with a shop towel). The bass has been hanging around for 2 days so far and it looks great. The poly smell is mostly gone, but I'm going to give it another 3 or 4 days before I start mounting hardware to it. As soon as I get my hands on a camera, I'll add more photos to that Facebook album and post here.

Looks like I should be able to string it up and play it this weekend. I'll post sound clips when I can. I do a lot of recording at home, and I've got plans to re-dub the bass part in one of my tunes once I get this bass together.
 
#5
Andy, you are I are on somewhat parallel tracks. I also am going to start a short scale build in a month or so and I also want to be able to use any strings. So few are available in the short scale. I'm subbing and am very interested in seeing how you weave those strings around to use up the extra 4". I'll be doing it a different way, also string-through of course, and I really want to see how your works out.

It seems to me that if the string is dragged over some wood you may have intonation problems from uneven tension between the speaking part of the string and the strung part, which if slidinging across/against the mahogany, might jump on you when you dig in. Probably much less of an issue with the smoother flats you're planning to use.

Good luck!
 
#6
Jaygunn,

Thanks for checking this out. I'm also worried a bit about issues with running the strings directly over the wood. If I run into any problems, I do have access to some Delrin plastic which I can use to cut out some ferrules to let the strings sit on. That should give a nice low-friction surface to prevent snags.
 
#7
I've updated my photo gallery:
Andy's Orange Hybrid

I just realized I never listed the hardware I'm using, so here goes:
Neck:
Warmoth 30" Warhead neck
Wenge w/ Rosewood fretboard
Hipshot ultra-light tuning heads

Body:
Neck pickup - Bartolini MM42CBJD3 (w/ 3-way coil selector)
Bridge pickup - Bartolini MM4CBC
Preamp - Glockenklang 3-band w/ stacked treble+bass
Bridge - Babicz Full Contact Hardware
String tailpiece - Piece of scrap Delrin we had in the shop ;)

The bass is now playable and it sounds great. It's quite a bit brighter than my Carvin B4 (jazz bass copy). The bridge pickup is pretty aggressive, much like a Stringray. The neck is full of bottom end, but very useable all on it's own. I really wish the pickups weren't flat black though. I might have to make some pickup covers.

I also put in a 3-way coil selector on the neck pickup so I can select either coil or both of them in series (works just like a Les Paul or Tele toggle switch). I was afraid that the two coils would not sound different enough, but there is a pretty clear difference between the two, the one closer to the neck has more of a scooped sound whereas the one closer to the bridge is dominated by midrange. The bridge coil sounds like a slightly brighter version of the neck pickup on my jazzy (a Dimarzio Model J), there's some really tasty grit in there. Does anyone know if the two coils in this Bartolini MM42CBJD2 are voiced differently? If they aren't, then pickup placement counts for a lot more than I thought it would.

I also can't say enough good things about this neck. The unfinished wenge back is super fast. Unless weight is an issue, I don't think I'm ever going to have a neck made from any other kind of wood. I also got stainless steel "vintage fender" sized frets that I like a bit more than the jumbos on my Carvin. And the short scale makes a big difference for a guy with small hands like me. I just wish I could figure out a way to grab a bit of the orange color from the body and put it on the headstock. I think an inlay is my only option, but I'm worried about doing really precise work like that.

I still need to cut out a control cavity cover and I'm thinking of making a pickguard as well, but I haven't worked out the design for that. I have some really awesome silver paisley material that I think will work well. I'm open to suggestions about the pickguard shape (hint, hint, wink, wink).

I'll post some sound clips soon, I am not fully moved into my new house yet.
 
#11
Here is a song I recorded with this bass. It's an older recording, but I think the more aggressive sound of my new bass fits the tune better than my jazz copy did. I played it with a pick and had to boost the low EQ, and cut the highs and mids just a little bit. Other than that, there is only a tiny bit of compression on the track.

Decor by Andy Latham

I hope you like tritones ;)
 
#15
Thanks, Barnacle.

I'm an engineer, so when I first decided to build a shorty I did my research. Everybody and their mother said that you need to use short scale strings on a shorty. The engineer in me said "BS." So I fixed that problem.

Truth be told, I'm not completely happy with my solution. It's not adjustable without drilling new holes and moving that plastic piece. If I were to build another one, I would make a piece similar to the "claw" on a Fender Stratocaster. I would use three screws instead of two, just to play it safe. That way, you could adjust the total length of the string run while keeping the scale length constant.

Oh well, live and learn.
 
#16
This is a really nice build - kudos. You have a good eye, great engineering and woodworking skills and a lot of creativity. I've always been partial to SG's and this has a lot of SG in the look (pointy horns plus chamfered edges).

I agree it would be desirable to have an adjustable tailpiece - your solution in the last post sounds good.

Waiting for the next one!
 

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