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Orange Peel Hell

Rob Page

Commercial User
Oct 7, 2020
213
402
Culver City, CA
www.instagram.com
Disclosures
Pipe Dream Fretworks
I'm still getting way more orange peel than I wish I were. Takes a couple hours wet sanding to get rid of it. Any tips?

I use a Fuji Turbo HVLP, 1.4mm tip and Varathane Ultiate water based Poly. Feels like an overspray issue for sure but I don't have a gorgeous booth to suck it out!
 
I think we talked about this before so I apologize if I'm repeating but what works for me with VU is a larger tip if it's available. I'm using a 1.8 with the gun I use for clear coats and I kinda wish I would have gotten the 2.0 while I could for that gun just to try. With VU I'm usually between 1 1/2 to 2 turns out on the needle and the air flow adjustment most or all the way open. I keep the fan adjustment just cracked open, basically no real spreading of the pattern at all. I have an actual regulator at the gun end of the hose not the flow restrictor that seems to come with some spray guns and keep it at 12-15psi typically. Sometimes I'll have it up to 18 or 20 but that 15psi area seems to work best. I'll adjust the speed I'm moving the gun over the body so I just get the VU to turn a little milky white as I'm spraying. I've gotten minimal sanding needed coats with that method. Not every time but more often the more I spray. The other caveat is I'm in northern Utah which is high desert and we have very low humidity. I'm not sure what adjustments are needed if you're in the south or someplace like that.

Is it actually orange peel? I've gotten craters in VU before, I think there's pictures somewhere in the water based finishes thread from someone else although I might have posted some in my thread also. That seems to mean there's contamination in the Varathane and all you can do is open a fresh can. I had that happen on the last body I finished. It was the end of a gallon that had sprayed wonderfully and all of a sudden I had craters. I tried mixing in some distilled water and some General Finishes water based stain reducer but the only thing that cured it was opening the new quart I had purchased.
 
I'm still getting way more orange peel than I wish I were. Takes a couple hours wet sanding to get rid of it. Any tips?

I use a Fuji Turbo HVLP, 1.4mm tip and Varathane Ultiate water based Poly. Feels like an overspray issue for sure but I don't have a gorgeous booth to suck it out!

I agree with what Matt said above, and I'll add:

The main cause of orange peel in water-base polyurethanes, like Varathane Ultimate, is the spray being too finely atomized and traveling too far through the air before it hits the surface. If the droplet sheds too much water mid-air, it sticks to the surface as a lump and doesn't want to flow out. It starts curing too quickly and forms into a little hard bump.

From my years of experience with VU and other water-base polyurethanes, I get the smoothest surface by turning the air pressure down low (like 13 psi), turning the Fan all the way off, and holding the gun about 4" off the surface. I'm spraying about a 2" dia circle, and it's very heavy with water. It flows out smooth in a couple of seconds. The trick is to spray it on thick enough that it flows out smoothly, but not so thick that it sags and runs.

This is the opposite of solvent-base paints. They'll flow out to a smoother surface with finer atomization and a wide fan pattern. Expensive, precision guns and higher air pressure. The oil-based solvent takes longer to evaporate off, and the little droplet has more time to flow out and not become a lump.

Turbine-type spray guns can be a problem, because they may not be able to be adjusted to low enough air pressure and fan. I don't own a turbine rig myself, but my buddy Jeremy used one here in my spray booth for a while, spraying Varathane Ultimate. No matter how he set it, it always sprayed a much larger cloud and pattern, with lots of overspray floating around. A rougher surface and much more peripheral mess than my non-turbine HVLP guns. But he liked it because it did the job quicker, and covered a larger area faster. I never tried messing with it, to see if I could get it adjusted to my taste.

That's my recommendation: Try adjusting the air pressure, flow and fan down as low as possible, so that it sprays a small circle at a closer distance. With minimal overspray. Try working with it like that, and learn the technique. You'll find that point where it lays on just thick enough that it flows out smooth.
 
The gun I usually use for clear with VU is a LVLP Sprayit. Unfortunately I don't think that model is available any more, but yes, it works just fine. I don't remember a huge difference between it and the HVLP guns I have other than the compressor runs less.

Edit: like I mentioned above, I usually have the fan pretty well closed and, like Bruce, spray pretty close to the body so I don't have a huge amount of overspray.
 
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Yes, I agree, that I didn't see much difference between the older-style LVLP and modern HVLP spray guns, when setting them up to spray the water-base polys, like we're talking about. My favorite guns over the last 5 years or so have been these cheap imports that I bought on Amazon. I have 4 of them.


The ones I got came with 1.4mm and 1.8mm needles/nozzles. I really like the 1.8mm needles.

Searching now, I notice that they now offer these same guns with up to 5 needle sets, including 2.0mm, 2.5mm and 3.0mm. That's interesting. I may get one and try it out.

 
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Yes, I agree, that I didn't see much difference between the older-style LVLP and modern HVLP spray guns, when setting them up to spray the water-base polys, like we're talking about. My favorite guns over the last 5 years or so have been these cheap imports that I bought on Amazon. I have 4 of them.


The ones I got came with 1.4mm and 1.8mm needles/nozzles. I really like the 1.8mm needles.

Searching now, I notice that they now offer these same guns with up to 5 needle sets, including 2.0mm, 2.5mm and 3.0mm. That's interesting. I may get one and try it out.

Unfortunately I invested in a Fuji turbine so I have to use their $350 guns. In hindsight maybe I would have gone a different route!
 
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Nice. I'll have to keep those Amazon guns in mind if or when I need a new one.

Chris at Highline Guitars on YouTube recently posted a video on the spray equipment he uses. One was a turbine system and I think he was using a water based finish through it. Check out the video and / or contact him. I haven't had any personal interaction but he seems like a nice guy.
 

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