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Outdoor sound

A

-Asdfgh-

Apr 13, 2010
15,381
27,599
UK
#1
This has probably been done to death in the past, although I couldn't see any obvious threads in a search, hence this thread.

At a festival (in the audience) this year I was unimpressed by the bass sound. There was lots of low end, but not much in the way in the mids and it was possible to distinguish whether the bassist was playing or not, but not really what notes. At around B (lowest B on a 4 string) there was also quite a big of boom coming from at least one of the sets of speakers. There was also some high end fret noise and so on audible when not being masked by other instruments. Playback of recorded music sounded fine.

What I am guessing is that the sound engineer had put some sort of smile eq curve on the bass? What I am guessing would be better is something with sub-80Hz cut back, more low mids. Is this a better game plan for large outdoor venues, or are there other considerations too?
 
#2
If the sound system is quality, and the tone produced by the bassist sounds good and is being sent to the FOH via a quality DI or using tried-and-true techniques, there is no reason why the mixer shouldn't be able to carve out a sound that they like. Maybe the mixer thought his bass tone was a good one, and appropriate. Or, the PA stacks might not have been balanced, and sometimes subwoofers get purposely over-emphasized, especially if a sound company is used to providing for rap/hip hop acts, etc. My experience as a mixer is that most sounds are much easier to sculpt at outdoor shows due to the lack of unwanted acoustic issues....but I've certainly heard my share of bad mixes outdoors. ??? I dunno.
 
#4
Just plain not a good mix job on the bass. They sometimes get treated as an afterthought, especially on multiband bills with quick changeovers where getting recognizable vocals, drum sounds, leads, etc. has to come first.

Didn't have anything to do with being outside. If anything it's easier to mix out there for the reasons jimfist said.

And yes, there are those who think all bass drums should sound like rap. :/
 
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#6
jimfist said:
and sometimes subwoofers get purposely over-emphasized, especially if a sound company is used to providing for rap/hip hop acts, etc.
Click to expand...

Since the recorded music between bands was fine (that's tailored for a wide variety of speakers) I don't think it was the subs themselves, just the signal going into the mixer/eq. The basses were the usual gamut of Ps and Js for the most part, and mostly 4 strings.
 
#7
-Asdfgh- said:
Since the recorded music between bands was fine (that's tailored for a wide variety of speakers) I don't think it was the subs themselves, just the signal going into the mixer/eq. The basses were the usual gamut of Ps and Js for the most part, and mostly 4 strings.
Click to expand...

Well, then, I'd say it was just sheer sloppiness on the part of the sound mixer, or again, maybe he thought it sounded "good" from where he was mixing. Oh well. Such is life. We strive for the best, and can only hope that those who are responsible for live sound mixing are on the same page and have as much pride in their work as the musicians who bleed for their craft. Unfortunately it doesn't always work out that way.
 
#8
I've mixed on medium sized rigs (up to 2kW*) but nothing outdoors, so I wanted to check, for personal growth, if outdoors the standard principles apply in that circumstance - if muddy cut below ~80Hz, boost low mids for body, and upper mids to taste.

* That used to be a lot of watts, but things seem to have got bigger over the years. I've been wearing ear plugs in the audience of gigs for a decade and a half now!
 
#10
My guess is there was no frequency-slotting plan. Instruments were probably stepping all over each other. The tragedy is that it's trivial to get it right; the tools are readily available at low price points and have been since the mid-late 1970s.

Sometimes, though, instruments are intentionally run in the same range(s), i.e. premeditated congestion. Sometimes because that's part of a band's signature sound, sometimes to cover sloppy/incompetent musicianship by one of more members -- typically the bass player, sadly.

I think someone already said this, but non-headliners often get only a level check -- if even that -- before showtime. However, if things aren't straightened out after 2-3 minutes have gone by, then someone's not doing his job or just doesn't give a crap.
 
#12
Downunderwonder said:
or bassist with chronic smilie syndrome with soundman who didn't give a flying fart about correcting it.
Click to expand...

It was the same for all bands apart from the headliner that was using synth bass. I don't want to bash sound engineers, but making sure I understand the causes for it for outdoor sound, having only mixed myself indoors, means I have some chance of communicating the correct information to the sound engineer (or someone in the audience does on my behalf) should I find myself playing an outdoor festival again. The last time I played bass at an outdoor festival it was raining so hard that the audience ran away so it wouldn't have mattered what it sounded like and my main concern was the stage sinking into the mud! It seems the consensus is that it's not something that's particular to being outdoors, though (the sound, not the weather - raining inside is a bad thing and the last time it happened at a gig it was a burst pipe...)
 
#13
Ime the only way to get good bass is to show I mean business with post EQ, pref my mic, tell them I like to sound like the cab sounds so no need to boost low end or scoop mids. If they are a scooper they scoop less.

Simplistically, the band sound on stage should be quite well mixed before it hits the mixer. The rest is application of fairy dust, not sledgehammers.
 
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