Over valued 70's P-bass?

[2thAche]

Anything old and desirable will cost whatever people will pay to have it instead of someone else having it. The market drives the cost. What is it worth? Nothing to someone who doesn't care about the history, or have an emotional attachment to seeing one. Worth the top of the market for a collector who wants a pristine version with all original parts and an interesting story or documentation. They might not even play it. Annoying, but not going to change.

A 70s P bass may be expensive now, but honestly it's just going to cost you more later on average. This is a silly debate to compare them to something modern. People driving the market for classics flat out don't want something modern, they want the classic. If you don't, then don't buy one, but people shouldn't need to make themselves feel better that they can't have one or don't want to pay the market value by having a debate over what they're worth.

 

[Mastermold]

Honestly, I don't really get buying a "vintage" instrument that's still in production. A new p bass should hopefully play and sound like how one would them to play/sound. If it doesn't, at least you haven't sunk a few thousand into it. (Barring a bespoke bass, and then I would certainly HOPE it plays exactly how one would want!)

To me, buying an older instrument ("vintage" or not) makes sense when the model in question isn't available anymore. As an example, if I was shopping for a vintage Fender, I would probably be looking at an Elite Precision or a Jazz Bass Special or another model that's been out of production and hasn't been/probably won't be reissued.

To answer OP's question, yes, I think vintage Fenders are overvalued. However, as has been pointed out a number of times on TB (including, I would imagine, in this thread), an instrument's value is what someone is willing to pay for it. So overvaluing is as much a function of what people are willing to pay as what someone feels justified in asking.

Most of my vintage basses are out of production and have been for a long time, but I still play vintage Fenders too.

 

[Wolfhound32]

But, let's be honest, they will never be better that the most recent American Standard, American Professional and/or American Professional II; now there's better QC, better tuning machines, bridges, sculpted neck heels, better truss rod access for an easier neck relief adjustment and I believe that even the woods used today are of better quality; I can even think that the pickups are better than those used in '79 and, in any case, they can be easily and relatively cheaply replaced.
So I AM PERSONALLY TRULY HORRIFIED looking at somebody selling an old bass with no particular better features than the equivalent ones fabricated today at twice the price of the new ones, it's PURE MADNESS in my opinion.
Now start shooting if you want

Totally agree!
Everything from a players standpoint is better on the American Pro II than a random P from the 70's.
From a human nature standpoint, there is a sentimental factor.
From a marketing standpoint, adding the "vintage" moniker puts more money in the pocket.
And of course there's the internet, which tells people what to believe LOL!

Personally, I like the large logos and bold print of the 70's headstocks, along with the large baseball bat shaped necks. But those details are certainly not worth the crazy money-- to me anyway

 

[pbassnut]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of ads up for Fender p-basses circa 1970-79 at values between $3500-$7000. I suppose you could get a good one but are people over valuing these things? They obviously have the right to ask what they want to but I have trouble believing the basses are worth the price I ask out of curiosity as I've never played anything older than an '86 and to me it wasn't any different than my 2015. Does anyone have experience with 70's vintage P's? Am I missing something?

My personal opinion ... while old (and by old, I mean roughly 1975 and older) Fenders are VERY cool, I don't see the point of paying the big money they command these days (unless you have money to burn). There are all kinds of el-supremo Fender knock-off Ps and Js that are just as good or better and can be had for considerably less money (particularly when purchased used). Just to name a few ... Nash, Lakland, Olinto, Mike Lull, Moollon, Sadowsky, Bluesman, and (of course) Fender Custom Shop. In addition, there have been Fender AVRI eras that had some excellent basses ... the early 1982 - 1983 Fullerton reissues and the 2013 - 2015 Fender AVRI '63 Ps, '64 Js, and '74 Js are very well regarded. Lastly, the 2012 - 2016 Fender American Standard Ps and Js tend to be very good. Bottom line ... the code has been cracked. Fender basses are not like impossible to duplicate Stradivarius violins. Stellar new Fender type basses can be had without going down the Vintage rabbit hole.

 

[dsteinschneider]

I bought a 72 Ash natural finish/Maple neck new in high school. It's a great bass - hopefully my kids can get a good price for it when that day comes

 

[OnTheDownLow]

Not literally used or new old stock from the 70s. New, made-to-order from Musikraft. Top notch quality. I have 2 P type necks from them. One is a '57/'58 type and the other is a late '59/'60/'61 type.

70s P necks are somewhat variable as far as how thin or thick C profile. Do you have a specific 70s P neck to model from?

Construction: 2 Piece

Head Shape: J/P Style Head

Scale Length: 34.0" Standard Fender

Number of Frets: 20 (Standard without FB Overhang)

Nut Width: 1.600"

Heel Width and Type: 2-1/2" (63.5mm) Fender Rounded J/P Heel Shape

Truss Rod Type: Single Acting w/ Vintage Nut adjust @ Heel

Shaft Wood: Rock Maple

Fingerboard Wood: Dark Indian Rosewood

Fingerboard Style: Veneer (Vintage Fender) 20 Fret Only

Fingerboard Radius: 7-1/4"

Fingerboard Edge Style: Semi Rolled Fingerboard Edges

Tuner Hole Size: 11/16" (Standard)

Fret Size and Type: 6230 Nickel Silver (Vintage Small)

Top Inlay Type: 1/4" Dots (Mother of Pearl)

Side Markers: (Larger) Mother of Pearl 3/32"

Back Profile Shape and Size: Med C 88 98. (Thin C .83 @ 1st and Fat C 1.00 @ 1st also available options)

Binding: None

Graphite Reinforcing Rods: None

I see what you mean, I'm talking about literal vintage parts not custom built ones.

 

[beggar98]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of ads up for Fender p-basses circa 1970-79 at values between $3500-$7000. I suppose you could get a good one but are people over valuing these things? They obviously have the right to ask what they want to but I have trouble believing the basses are worth the price I ask out of curiosity as I've never played anything older than an '86 and to me it wasn't any different than my 2015. Does anyone have experience with 70's vintage P's? Am I missing something?

In my opinion, any dollar of price over about $3k is just market scarcity for any bass guitar. Fodera, Carl Thompson, Ritter, whoever. Beyond $3k has nothing to do with any intrinsic value (materials + labor) and is all about supply and demand.

 

[DaveParker39]

Alas, value is dictated by what people are paying.

 

[Mastermold]

My personal opinion ... while old (and by old, I mean roughly 1975 and older) Fenders are VERY cool, I don't see the point of paying the big money they command these days (unless you have money to burn). There are all kinds of el-supremo Fender knock-off Ps and Js that are just as good or better and can be had for considerably less money (particularly when purchased used). Just to name a few ... Nash, Lakland, Olinto, Mike Lull, Moollon, Sadowsky, Bluesman, and (of course) Fender Custom Shop. In addition, there have been Fender AVRI eras that had some excellent basses ... the early 1982 - 1983 Fullerton reissues and the 2013 - 2015 Fender AVRI '63 Ps, '64 Js, and '74 Js are very well regarded. Lastly, the 2012 - 2016 Fender American Standard Ps and Js tend to be very good. Bottom line ... the code has been cracked. Fender basses are not like impossible to duplicate Stradivarius violins. Stellar new Fender type basses can be had without going down the Vintage rabbit hole.

All true, but I'll just add my opinion to this, that having an authentic instrument rather than a reissue of that instrument is also very cool -- so long as you can afford it and aren't paying more than you should given your budget. No one needs to go bankrupt paying for luxury items of any kind, and even if one needs an instrument there are plenty of great options like you mentioned and some really nice budget instruments too.

 

[JRA]

....are people over valuing these things?

yes, of course!

 

[ebo]

The second my mid 60’s EBO is worth $3K-$7K it’s on the chopping block. I’ll miss it for sentimental reasons (or not, it sleeps in the closet anyway). Can I trade up with the money I make? Seriously, I can’t even say that sentence out loud with sniggering. It definitely gets comments though, so there’s that.

 

[Bass Viking]

@Gorilla Monsoon three makers that I would take a close look at are: 1) G&L - the LB and SB are both great instruments, have to watch the weight though; 2) Vintage Modern - outstanding quality basses! And 3) Wilkins - his Road-Tested line are fantastic basses, finest materials and no one does finish work better than Pat Wilkins. If I had 3K to spend on a P bass, I’d be looking most closely at Wilkins or VM.

Do you mean Modern Vintage? I have the Jazz Bass 1966 version and it's high quality. I haven't tried the 70s P Bass version but I imagine it's also well made.

 

[bherman]

I’m not necessarily anti-Fender: I own a ‘93 Jazz that I put a 2Tek bridge into and installed Lane Poor pups. The obvious issue with this thing is the fact that it weighs nearly 11 pounds and has very low output, but it has its own very distinct sweet sound with incredibly good sustain. I just want a simpler instrument with a more Motown sound. At present, I own six basses, and there’s only two I would dare play out if I chose. I’m going to be looking more for a “beater” and hope to keep it under $2k.

Makes sense. Wouldn’t be hard to find a decent used LB-100 for well under that figure

 

[Verne Andru]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of ads up for Fender p-basses circa 1970-79 at values between $3500-$7000. I suppose you could get a good one but are people over valuing these things? They obviously have the right to ask what they want to but I have trouble believing the basses are worth the price I ask out of curiosity as I've never played anything older than an '86 and to me it wasn't any different than my 2015. Does anyone have experience with 70's vintage P's? Am I missing something?

A friend of mine has a 72 IIRC. It was a bit unique being a custom order for the Guess Who's bass player; he ordered a black J-Bass and P-Bass with a few tweaks including a slim J neck on the P. When they arrived he didn't want them anymore, which is how my buddy got them.

I borrowed the P for a couple weeks (the J had been sold earlier so I didn't get a chance to try that ). It played alright but the electronics were horrible. The pickup(s) were weak and noisy - this wasn't at the height of Fender's QC efforts. The J neck was very playable as I recall, but not what you'd typically find on an off-the-shelf P of the day. I remember the neck smelling of hot-dogs - his son had used it prior to me borrowing it so it was in need of a good cleaning.

I was impressed enough to buy a Yamaha instead.

 

[bherman]

Do you mean Modern Vintage? I have the Jazz Bass 1966 version and it's high quality. I haven't tried the 70s P Bass version but I imagine it's also well made.

Yup got the letters reversed!

 

[tim gueguen]

Isn’t the uneven quality of 70s Fenders what started the vintage craze in the first place?

Actually I'd say no. It was Eric Clapton and Mike Bloomfield popularising the Gibson Les Paul in the mid '60s, specifically the '58-60 "Standard" model in sunburst. Gibson revamped the guitar in 1961 because sales were dropping, the redesigned instrument being the guitar that would become known in 1962 as the SG. Les Paul didn't like the new design, and his marriage to Mary Ford was falling apart. He decided not to renew his Gibson endorsement contract and Gibson didn't push to renew it, as his popularity was also in decline. So it was out of production when Clapton and Bloomfield started to make it popular. (Keith Richards started playing one too circa 1965, but I don't think he was as influential in its revival.) Ironically when Gibson started making the Les Paul again in 1968 they made goldtop models with P90s and Les Paul Customs with humbuckers, so people were still looking for the older sunburst guitars.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I’m not saying they’re all crap, but the older instruments I’ve played were not great and some were just dogs. I’m sure there are magic examples, but I haven’t run into them. I do like the look, so I like relics. Sure, some people talk about the nostalgic story that an old bass could tell. Unless it was owned by someone famous, that story is going to be “ouch” “bam” “bang” “crash”. That “love” is damage and wear. I don’t care if someone did that on a cymbal stand in the sixties or with a piece of chain in 2023. Sixties and seventies basses are collectibles, but I like todays well-made instruments for playing.

 

[ToddB1963]

Totally agree!
Everything from a players standpoint is better on the American Pro II than a random P from the 70's.
From a human nature standpoint, there is a sentimental factor.
From a marketing standpoint, adding the "vintage" moniker puts more money in the pocket.
And of course there's the internet, which tells people what to believe LOL!

Personally, I like the large logos and bold print of the 70's headstocks, along with the large baseball bat shaped necks. But those details are certainly not worth the crazy money-- to me anyway

'Better' is subjective of course.

Personally I'm not a fan of the string-through bodies (no improvement in sound IMO and ferrules that fall out when changing strings - at least, that was my experience ), or high-mass bridges, or narrower nut-widths, or pickups on modern Precisions, and QC can still be a bit hit and miss (as proven by the Am Pro II P I saw hanging on the wall of the last music store I visited. The bridge had been mounted off-centre...).

 

[DwaynieAD]

I mean... Don't buy them?

 

[Stefan Cartmale]

I'm not looking to buy a quality instrument for the sake of having one. I already have 4 great basses and a couple mediocre ones. They are part of a collection I've started as an hommage to Leo and I'm not a good enough bassist or a rich enough one to justify a 50-60 era p-bass though ultimately that would be the goal - to have one of each of Leo's designs period specific. A 70's music man, a 60's jazz, a 50/60's p-bass and an 80's G&L. I have an example of each but they aren't period specific. All are excellent bases though. Since I won't be able to throw down that kind of bread, I'm reserved to getting examples that are 'close enough' but I got a bit of sticker shock when I started looking at the 70's basses. Since it wouldn't be period specific if from the 70's, I'd at least like to get a bass that is a worthy player. I was curious what people with experience with them think about current pricing and what experience people have with them as quality. I'm prepared to drop 3-4k on a good bass this year- hopefully sometime this summer so I just wanted to do some preliminary research into what people know about them before hitting the pavement for my search. I'm probably crazy but I'd love to have this collection. I'd probably be smarter to change the parameters of the collection but since I just recently finished the 1st stage (getting a non-period specific example of each bass), I'd like to start upping the value.