Double Bass Paths For Classical Bassists?

[Matthew_84]

Please forgive my ignorance... I know very little about the culture of classical music ensembles and orchestras. I only seriously started listening to classical music a few weeks ago, but I am growing a strong urge to play it, and it is quickly becoming my favourite genre of music.

What are the different ensembles and orchestras for a classical double bassist to play in?

I know I could just be a soloist, maybe play with a pianist (or other musicians), or play in a small ensemble, an amateur orchestra, or in a professional orchestra, but that's about all I know.

I probably won't get good enough to join a professional orchestra, but what are amateur orchestras like? How any people typically play in them? Is there a bass section, or is there typically only one bassist? How advanced must you be to play in one?

What are some other instruments that bassists typically play with in very small ensembles (for example, Piano Trios typically feature a piano, cello, and a violin. What type if trio/quartet typically features a bass)?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Leo Smith]

Orchestras usually have a section of double basses, perhaps 4 to 8, depending on the size of the rest of the orchestra and the music being played.

Double bass in chamber music (small ensembles) is very very rare. The only one that really comes to mind is the Trout Quintet. ( Piano Quintet in A major, D. 667, by Franz Schubert ) More modern and contemporary composers have probably included bass in their chamber works, but again, probably rare.

Since you're in Toronto you have the opportunity to check out a major symphony live, to see what the numbers look like. Also look into orchestras of the local universities to see them in concert. Also, Youtube - everything is on Youtube.

 

[Harry Monkley]

No idea what the amateur orchestra culture is like in Toronto, but here in the UK there is quite a lot of diversity - some amateur orchestras play principally for their own enjoyment, others are more serious and put on regular concerts, some work with professional conductors. Each amateur orchestra will likely have it's own set of requirements with regard to how committed you need to be to rehearsals/concerts, and the level at which your playing and sight reading needs to be to participate, you may or may not have to audition.

The best thing to do is contact your local orchestras, go along to a rehearsal and talk to the organiser(s) and also to the musicians - my experience is that there are lots more openings for double bass players at the amateur level than players to fill them, so even if your skill level isn't that high right now, you should be able to find somewhere to gain some experience, and any ensemble playing you participate in will really help you up your game.

 

[gnypp45]

I have the fortune to live in Stockholm, which has a lively amateur and professional music scene. As a bass player you are often in demand. Amateur orchestras can be fixed ensembles which rehearse once a week and give concerts at regular intervals, or be project oriented, where an appropriately sized ensemble forms and rehearses for a particular concert program.

The fixed ensembles here typically have 2-3 bass players and the rest of the string section is similarly a bit undersized for romantic repertoire. But the project orchestra can gather large forces and it has performed e.g. symphonies by Mahler and tone poems by Richard Strauss, with 7-8 basses. It can also perform concerts in smaller settings - a few weeks ago I was the only double bass player in two performances of J.S. Bach's Christmas Oratorio. Wonderful music!

 

[Matthew_84]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I was hopeful that it was more common for basses in small chamber music ensembles, but it is what it is. Thanks!

My sight-reading is horrible, so I have some work ahead of me before I reach out to any local orchestras.

 

[BD Jones]

In the US, many of the larger cities will have community orchestras or symphonies in addition to the professional ones. Some will have a few community orchestras. In Texas, there aren't many cities over 100,000 people that don't have an orchestra of some sort. Some of these community orchestras rival professional orchestra sizes, but most are about half the size.

 

[neilG]

I was hopeful that it was more common for basses in small chamber music ensembles, but it is what it is. Thanks!

With all due respect, I have to say that Leo is wrong about the chamber ensemble literature and you should still pursue that if you are interested. There are many, many pieces with double bass in a chamber group, you just need to educate yourself.

 

[ILIA]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I was hopeful that it was more common for basses in small chamber music ensembles, but it is what it is. Thanks!

My sight-reading is horrible, so I have some work ahead of me before I reach out to any local orchestras.

Yeah, bass in orchestra is more common because 1) of the way secondary school music education is set up (large ensemble is prioritized over smaller chamber groups), 2) primary professional opportunities for "arco" bassists is orchestra (thereby creating a trickle down effect to the amateur groups), & 3) the canon of the classical literature has inadvertently defined the role of the "arco" double bassist as mainly a contributor to the the orchestral genres.

However, there is still a lot of chamber lit. out there that includes double bass in the instrumentation. Check out
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed] for a massive list.

Now, stop posting, pick up Simandl Book I or Vance Book I or Rabbath Book I, and start studying and sight-reading. Go get a qualified teacher if you can afford it. And report back to us in a year on what you accomplished. Looking forward to your report in December 2017.

 

[robobass]

With all due respect, I have to say that Leo is wrong about the chamber ensemble literature and you should still pursue that if you are interested. There are many, many pieces with double bass in a chamber group, you just need to educate yourself.

Yes. American music schools are aware aware of Shubert's "Trout" Quintet, and that's about it for chamber music involving bass. The first time I visited Germany, my new super cool and hot German girlfriend (now my wife) arranged a reading with her amateur quartet. One of the guys had prepared for this, naturally with German thoroughness. There was a mountain of chamber music sitting there when we showed up, borrowed from libraries. I had no idea anything like this existed.

My sight-reading is horrible, so I have some work ahead of me before I reach out to any local orchestras.

In my opinion, you can't learn to sightread at home. It's like trying to learn French at home. You can study French from classes, books, tapes, YouTube, etc. all you want, but until you actually go to France it will mean nothing, and on your first day there you probably will have trouble ordering a coffee, no matter how much you'd prepared. Stay there a month though with no money, and you will speak basic French at the end. Necessity.

Sightreading is the same thing. You can only learn by doing, and there is no shortcut. Find a hobby orchestra in your area. If you own a bass, I bet you will be accepted. They will play standard, public domain, classical works. Get the music, listen to recordings, and learn the parts before the rehearsals. This may seem counter-intuitive, but I think that the better you know the standard repertoire, the easier it is to fathom the non-standard stuff.

 

[BD Jones]

Yes. American music schools are aware aware of Shubert's "Trout" Quintet, and that's about it for chamber music involving bass. The first time I visited Germany, my new super cool and hot German girlfriend (now my wife) arranged a reading with her amateur quartet. One of the guys had prepared for this, naturally with German thoroughness. There was a mountain of chamber music sitting there when we showed up, borrowed from libraries. I had no idea anything like this existed.


In my opinion, you can't learn to sightread at home. It's like trying to learn French at home. You can study French from classes, books, tapes, YouTube, etc. all you want, but until you actually go to France it will mean nothing, and on your first day there you probably will have trouble ordering a coffee, no matter how much you'd prepared. Stay there a month though with no money, and you will speak basic French at the end. Necessity.

Sightreading is the same thing. You can only learn by doing, and there is no shortcut. Find a hobby orchestra in your area. If you own a bass, I bet you will be accepted. They will play standard, public domain, classical works. Get the music, listen to recordings, and learn the parts before the rehearsals. This may seem counter-intuitive, but I think that the better you know the standard repertoire, the easier it is to fathom the non-standard stuff.

You'd be surprised how much we American music teachers know about chamber music involving bass. We know there is more than the "Trout". The issue has less to do with the knowledge of the literature and more to do with there are fewer bassist than there are violinist, violists, and cellists; far fewer. Fewer bassists means less of these pieces are performed. Also, most bassist find more excitement (and work) in jazz than chamber works, so chamber works aren't as promoted for bass as they are for the other sections.

As to sight-reading, sight-reading is best done with other performers, and you cannot truly judge your sight-reading skills until you perform with others. However, you can certainly work on sight-reading SKILLS at home alone. You work on knowing the fingerboard forwards and backwards in all position. You work on intervals. You work on your rhythmic knowledge and vocabulary. You develop your technique. You work on your tempo. You play as much stuff as possible and use those musical connections to play other music. The cool thing about music is that while it is unlimited in what is created, it uses the same basic elements. By working on those elements you are also working on your sight-reading skills. However, as I tell my students, there is one element that you cannot work on by yourself: confidence. Lack of confidence will hurt your sight-reading ability just as much as your lack of knowledge. Confidence can only be gained through experience; through success and failure.

 

[Leo Smith]

With all due respect, I have to say that Leo is wrong about the chamber ensemble literature and you should still pursue that if you are interested. There are many, many pieces with double bass in a chamber group, you just need to educate yourself.

For sure I know I don't know them all. I was thinking specifically of things written like a string quartet. There's a LOT of lit for that, of course. But a standard group like that, with double bass as a regular member, seems very rare.

Also, thank you to Ilia for posting that the link to that list. I knew it existed somewhere.....

 

[Les Fret]

Double bass in chamber music (small ensembles) is very very rare.

Although it may not be totally rare it is at least very limited. There are in general very little small chamber music groups that have a bass player. I really envy other string players because they can play in a string quartet which has some of the most beautiful music written for. I would like to play in such a small classical ensemble and be the only bass player but that is very hard to find. I don't like big orchestras so then your choice to play classical music is rather limited. So then you can only start your own ensemble. I did but it is more world music orientated and we only play our own compositions. I also would like to play in a good (modern music) classical ensemble but I can not find it over here. Any ideas?

 

[mtto]

There's the "Soldier's Tale" ensemble:







Deviant Septet

 

[mtto]

Also, the Beethoven Septet/Schubert Octet. The octet has an additional violin, otherwise the same instrumentation.

 

[mtto]

Neither "Soldier's Tale" septet or the "Beethoven" septet are as standard as a string quartet, but they are standard ensembles with existing repertoire.

There are also tons of string quintets: standard quartet plus double bass.

 

[Phil Rowan]

Thanks for hipping everyone to such great chamber music, @mtto .. A few in there I was unaware of.

Here's a few more...

Bruch Octet


Prokofiev Quintet (I have a recording of this on my now dead external hard drive that has Hal Robinson on bass)

 

[neilG]