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Paying to Play? Worth a read at Least for Entertainment

brotherbassj

brotherbassj

Sep 20, 2008
3,369
38
Virginia
www.faultlinerva.com
Disclosures
Jim Dunlop USA, King Kong Cases, Golden Eagle Energy Drink
#1
I found this on my local craiglist. Many bars/venues have been having battle of the bands/showcasing local music etc. So this is something posted. It might be of value, or not, but I figured it would be an interesting read........

"Seems like a whole lot of VENUES don't want YOU to see this information! Why? Maybe it's because of this:

WHAT DOES PAYING TO PLAY SAY ABOUT YOUR BAND?
These pay-to-play companies will tell you that doing their shows is a way to let people know how hard you can work, that you are a go-getter, that you want to be successful. THAT IS A LIE. In reality, no real hard-working band would ever think of doing a show like this. They know they are a huge waste of time, effort and money...not to mention they’ll do damage to your image. The image your band (or you as a solo act) projects can be as important as the music you play.

So you need to ask yourselves a few questions. For instance, who plays these shows? Aren’t these shows typically filled with beginners and bands who need more practice time? Do your favorite bands ever pay-to-play? Of course not! No legitimate band would ever fall for doing these stinky gigs. They’d never consider selling tickets and handing all the money they collected over to some “company rep”. Older bands view this practice as pathetic.

It’s important to consider what your image will be and how people will view you. What does paying to play say about your band?

* We’re not good enough to do a real show.
* No real club will book us.
* Our music isn’t worth anything.
* Nobody really wants to see us so we have to resort to selling tickets.
* We are desperate.
* Our band isn’t the real deal.

Paying to play sends the wrong message. Doing these shows makes a bad impression. Paying-to-play can do more damage than you think!

10 WARNING SIGNALS IT'S A PAY-TO-PLAY SHOW

1. UNSOLICITED SPAM EMAIL: You typically receive a friendly often flattering email from a company you’ve never heard of, with show dates to choose from, or how to sign up for their Battle of the Bands (BOTB) contest. Their websites are usually professional looking/elaborate. No matter how new your band is, or if you even are a band, they’ll claim they are interested in your music and want to work with you. Typically they don’t even listen to you.

2. THEY CLAIM THEY ARE NOT PAY-TO-PLAY: The pay-to-play company goes out of their way to mention many times over that they are not. No legitimate booking company has to make this claim. These companies are constantly doing damage control on blogs and message boards, trying to defend themselves against unhappy musicians. Always google first to see what other bands are saying on musician forums/blogs (FYI: “glowing praise” on their pay-to-play site does not count).

3. YOU ARE GIVEN TICKETS TO SELL: Whether it’s a requirement to play a show or suggested in order to win a contest, a bands’ role is not to be in charge of pre-ticket sales. Promote the hell out of it, but let the club (or promoter) do the actual ticket selling. You are “the artist” and your role is to put on a good show that people will want to see.

4. YOU HAND MONEY OVER BEFORE YOU PLAY: If you hand any money, no matter where it comes from (your friends, family, your own pockets, the sofa cushions) to a company representative before the show, you are paying to play. The representative keeps a detailed tally of who came to see which band either by asking at the door or counting hands at a BOTB. This is never the way real shows are produced.

5. THE COMPANY TAKES THE BIGGEST CUT: You get none (as in BOTBs) or a small percentage back from the money you turned in. No matter what the situation, the company always takes the biggest cut for themselves. They are acting as unnecessary middlemen.

6. ONLY VERY NEW OR INEXPERIENCED BANDS ARE ON THE BILL: Pay-to-play companies work with inexperienced bands. Notice who’s on the bill (if they can even tell you) and see if it’s anybody you’ve ever heard of. Established bands are hip to this con job and won’t do these shows. In fact, ask any established band what they think of paying-to-play (unless you are profanity sensitive) and see how they view this practice.

7. CRAPPY SHOWS: Too many bands on the bill, a mismatched lineup of acts, too short of time on stage, admission price higher than normal, and an audience that won’t stay for the whole show (or are only interested in the band they came to vote for).

8. BIG PROMISES, BIG PRIZES: If you play this show your band will be on the road to Fame and Fortune. You’ll play in a venue you’ll never get on your own, you will win a chance to do a major tour, play at a major festival, get a million dollar recording contract, receive free recording time at a major studio, have major label A&R reps to evaluate you, etc. The percentage of any of this happening through these shows is remote at best.

9. NO PROMO: The company doesn’t print flyers for the show, there are no special print ads in the local music papers, no mention in the free concert calendar. The only promotion is done by the bands. Only the club might list it on their website and that’s it. BECAUSE...

10. YOU DO ALL THE WORK - THEY GET ALL THE MONEY. And if the show doesn’t turn out well and you complain, you get the blame for not working hard enough, or for being a band that will never make it in this biz. In addition, pay-to-play promoters will always stress what a big favor they do for bands, how much they are sacrificing to help you obtain success, how they too are musicians who’s only unselfish goal is to “help other musicians”.

Just for reading entertainment..........enjoy!

:hiding:
 
#3
I think that these BotB's have their place. And its for all the groups that were listed. Its sad but even bad bands should have a chance to play. The truth is, that it takes enough self confidence or someone with guidance for a good group to avoid these pitfalls.

Of course the business practice is slimy. And these are just slugs ripping off young musicians. But unless their is a promoter in the area willing to give the local high school no name band a place to play, where else are these kids going to play?
 
#4
TheVoiceless said:
I think that these BotB's have their place. And its for all the groups that were listed. Its sad but even bad bands should have a chance to play. The truth is, that it takes enough self confidence or someone with guidance for a good group to avoid these pitfalls.

Of course the business practice is slimy. And these are just slugs ripping off young musicians. But unless their is a promoter in the area willing to give the local high school no name band a place to play, where else are these kids going to play?
Click to expand...

I played house shows before I got into bar gigs. The highlight of my highschool band was playing at the University of South Florida.

But, we get the same crap here. Venues won't book you unless you have a demo. Demos cost money. You can't make a demo without playing. Even when you do all this, you may not even get paid.

It's the same 6 or 7 dudes that get shows regardless of what bands they are in. I'm not hatin on them. Good for them. My buddy is one of those "dudes". It just makes it hard for others to get in the "scene".
 
#5
JoeVictim said:
I played house shows before I got into bar gigs. The highlight of my highschool band was playing at the University of South Florida.

But, we get the same crap here. Venues won't book you unless you have a demo. Demos cost money. You can't make a demo without playing. Even when you do all this, you may not even get paid.

It's the same 6 or 7 dudes that get shows regardless of what bands they are in. I'm not hatin on them. Good for them. My buddy is one of those "dudes". It just makes it hard for others to get in the "scene".
Click to expand...

House party's are one way to avoid the Pay to Play shows. And for an unknown band its not band to play a show with 12 other bands as long as they stick around.

My advice is to anyone, try and avoid these shows. But if you need to play one, just understand what you are getting into.
 
#6
It's one thing to not get paid. We've all done at least a few gigs on which we didn't see a dime.
But paying to work? It's a whole different beast. We should all make a conscious effort to boycott that crap.
 
#8
chump stain said:
I've played a ton of gigs, and have always made something (when it's a bar gig) from the door. I've played benifits, or a church gig or whatever, where there was no pay, but we knew that going in. I will not sell tickets, that's a bunch of crap. And I'm definitely not paying to play.
Click to expand...

As long as there are gullible musicians believing that they get something out from paying for playing, sharks will be ready to take their money.
 
#12
Wow, that Craigslist ad needs to be sent to every musician's email address, taken to the printing press and then distributed on every telephone pole in every city, and reprinted in People magazine! There's so much truth in it; yet, gullible and inexperienced musicians will fall for this crap every time. I especially love the promoters who book c-list national acts and then expect the opening local bands to shill the tickets. If your headliner can't pull bodies through the door, then you shouldn't have booked the headliner in the first place.
 
#13
Great post. I've been saying this to all the young bands I meet, but often get the response that you have to start somewhere and so on.

Personally I think that attitude just perpetuates the whole thing. Setting up your OWN gigs at church halls, pubs, school or parties is much better.

Sure, you have to do the work, and you may not have all the PA or gear you'd ultimately like to have, BUT - you are in control of your own destiny, and no one is ripping you off.

If NO ONE is making any money, fine, I can sort of live with that if it's a benefit or party for a pal and it's just free beer. But if they make money and you don't, well that's just wrong.

If everyone avoided these kind of deals then they'd shrivel and die quite quickly.
 
#14
JoeVictim said:
I played house shows before I got into bar gigs. The highlight of my highschool band was playing at the University of South Florida.

But, we get the same crap here. Venues won't book you unless you have a demo. Demos cost money. You can't make a demo without playing. Even when you do all this, you may not even get paid.

It's the same 6 or 7 dudes that get shows regardless of what bands they are in. I'm not hatin on them. Good for them. My buddy is one of those "dudes". It just makes it hard for others to get in the "scene".
Click to expand...

As some point in time did he cut a demo and get in with these guys, and is he a superior musician to the other bands in the area to where he consistently pulls in patrons...i am one of those guys in my area, and you do have to spend money to make money, but i would never give someone money to play their establishment. A decent sounding demo doesn't cost as much as you think, you can find studios that are willing to do live takes of an entire band, with a quick mix, you don't have to track the whole band individually in fact its better if you don't because ultimately the club wants to know that the guitars are in tune, the singer is on pitch, the drums aren't sloppy and that people can sing along.
 
#16
CTbass613 said:
As some point in time did he cut a demo and get in with these guys, and is he a superior musician to the other bands in the area to where he consistently pulls in patrons...i am one of those guys in my area, and you do have to spend money to make money, but i would never give someone money to play their establishment. A decent sounding demo doesn't cost as much as you think, you can find studios that are willing to do live takes of an entire band, with a quick mix, you don't have to track the whole band individually in fact its better if you don't because ultimately the club wants to know that the guitars are in tune, the singer is on pitch, the drums aren't sloppy and that people can sing along.
Click to expand...

Nope, he lived above the dude that ran the venue...and he is a drummer. I have seen him play and I don't think I am below his level. But when you try competing with people that have lived here all their life, it's harder to break into the scene.

He's a total cool dude, it's just a viscious circle I didn't have to deal with until I moved here. And now, my band is falling apart. So, I feel like I am back to square one.
 
#17
a lot of these points apply to regular shows at clubs, too. not pay to play, but the crappy shows with crappy bands who couldn't get a gig 15 years ago. Way too many bands on the bill(5 is common). No promotion from the venue. Also, i've found that bands and their crowds only show up for the band they came for. Crowds don't come to a venue to see 4 or 5 bands, they come to see their friends play then they leave. Our crowd is guilty of this also, but TBH mostly we get booked with classic rock cover bands and funk/dance bands....we are indie rock. makes no sense to me, i blame that mostly on the venue. If they booked any bands with us that I wanted to hear, i'd stay.

My friend's band from Dallas, TX paid 450 dollars and drove to LA to play at the whiskey. They were assured that some local bands would be on the bill to bring a crowd. The 1st local bands consisted of some 16 year olds who seemed to never have picked up instruments before. The other band didn't show. The crowd for the night consisted of the bartenders and the sound crew.

Next night was at the rainbow.....even worse. no other bands were even booked. only crowd was the soundguy. PA consisted of a fender passport.

i will repeat....NEVER pay to play, even at an esteemed venue.
 
#18
This thread has freakishly good timing. Our local CL just had an ad posted inviting entries for a battle of the bands with a $1000 prize. I emailed my band about it and everybody wanted in... then I read this thread. Emailed the contact asking the brass tacks questions, like if there's an entry fee, etc... haven't heard back yet. I suspect I won't.
 
#19
Many areas of showbiz are rife with similar scams. When I was acting, there were all sorts of so-called "talent agents" around that charged a "membership" or "administration" fee and made big promises to their naive, eager clientele. Lots of beginning actors I met over the years fell for those scams and went nowhere, except to be quickly and efficiently parted from their hard-earned cash. (Legitimate agents do not charge fees up front, they take a percentage of your earnings from the work they get for you.) I'm not at all surprised that the same kind of practice goes on in the music biz. :rollno:
 

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