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Paypal rant

BassyBill

Gold Supporting Member
In Memoriam
Mar 12, 2005
18,174
4,621
West Midlands UK
I'm being harassed by debt collectors when I don't owe any money! The letter I've just written gives the details - sorry for the length of it, but I was wondering whether any of you guys could throw some light on this stupid situation?

Letter follows:

COMPLAINT
Your reference xxxxxxxx

Dear Mr Jones,

Having been unable to contact you by telephone as you requested, this is in response to your letter dated 30 May 2006. I would be grateful for your considered response to this rather lengthy account as I am treating this as a serious matter.

I received your letter this morning and immediately telephoned your office to be told you were unavailable, as you are “a very busy man”. The first person I spoke to was unable to deal effectively with my query and tried to transfer my call to his supervisor – after listening to the ringing tone for a considerable delay, I rang off and redialled. I then spoke to a second person and explained to I was anxious to resolve this matter without delay and he certainly understood my reasons for this. Indeed, he informed me that if I failed to make payment to you immediately, my details would be passed on to a company called Experian. Furthermore, this would undoubtedly have a damaging effect on my credit rating (not to mention my reputation) and this would make it impossible for me to arrange loans, mortgages and so on in the future. Your colleague understood me when I said this was causing me some considerable distress and told me making a payment was the only way to avoid these consequences.

I then described to your colleague the following sequence of events:

15/5/06
I received a letter from you, dated 10th May, claiming that you had been instructed by Paypal to recover from me $192.55 US. During a lengthy telephone call to your office I explained to one of your colleagues that whilst I have a Paypal account, I don’t owe them any money. I was told that it was necessary for me to contact Paypal to resolve the matter, as you were unable to do so. This I did, via the Paypal website. I received a very prompt email response from them agreeing that my account was in perfect order and suggesting that you contact them to confirm this. I telephoned your office again. I was told to email to you the response I had received. Unfortunately the email address you provided was incorrect and my message was returned. This necessitated another telephone call to get the correct email address. (I should point out to you that each call I make to your office entails me rehearsing all the facts of the matter as your system apparently doesn’t record any progress already made on a particular case and your operators always have to “start from scratch”, as it were.) I then sent the message to you again (attached). It included the message from Paypal to myself (agreeing that my account was in order and suggesting NCO contact them to confirm this), and also a statement to the effect that I was very unhappy about receiving correspondence of this nature from yourselves. I received no response.

18/5/06
I sent another email to you, including the text of the first one and a reminder that I had yet to receive a reply. This wasn’t responded to either.

26/5/06
I received mail from you informing me that your representative, a Mr. P. Brown, would be visiting me at my home on Tuesday 30th May between 9 AM and 9 PM. I telephoned your office again and in another lengthy conversation explained that I was unhappy with the way your company had handled this situation, that I was concerned about the possible effect on my credit rating and reputation and that you hadn’t responded to either email that I had sent to you. I also asked why you hadn’t contacted Paypal directly to ascertain the facts of the matter and was again told that this wasn’t possible, for reasons that weren’t specified. I was assured, however, that some efforts would be made to investigate further how this situation had occurred.

30/5/06
I took a day off work and waited at home between 9 AM and 9 PM in the hope of discussing this with your Mr. Brown. He never arrived. By this point, I was extremely angry and upset about the distress and inconvenience you had caused me, but refrained from telephoning you again, mainly because I had no confidence in your ability to resolve this or even respond appropriately. I doubt whether a telephone call at 9 PM would be answered anyway, despite your expectation of me being available to discuss this with your representative at this time.

2/6/06 (today)
I received a “red letter” dated 30/5/06 from S. C. Leatham-Locke LL.B threatening me with legal proceedings unless I paid you $192.55 US in full within 72 hours. I note that this is part of your company. I immediately telephoned your office again (twice), which resulted in the conversations noted in the second paragraph of this letter.

Please be aware that I believe the way you have handled this matter is unacceptable and unprofessional to the point of being negligent. Not only have you failed to respond to my communication on the occasions noted and caused me to take a day off work for no reason, but as far as I am aware no attempt has been made by you to contact Paypal (who are your client, after all) to find out whether or not you should be proceeding with your course of action. You have caused me considerable distress, inconvenience, time and trouble, not to mention the very real possibility of damage to both my credit rating and my reputation.

I now require you to respond appropriately to this situation without further delay. In order to do so, I insist that you carry out the following actions.

1) Act immediately to ensure that your company causes no damage to my credit rating or reputation.
2) Provide documentary evidence to my satisfaction that such damage has not occurred.
3) Make what I consider to be appropriate financial compensation for the distress, inconvenience, time and trouble caused to me by NCO Group.

Please note that unless this letter is responded to without delay, I will be pursuing this matter further with the Financial Ombudsman. My telephone numbers are at the top of this letter, which you will notice I am sending by recorded delivery.
 
Toasted said:
Bill, my advice in a situation of this magnitude is get to a lawyer.
Really? That serious, huh? You're scaring me. I will certainly want to know what they're doing about points 1 and 2 at the end of my letter. I think I'm going to need confirmation form Experian themselves that nothing will appear on my record about this.
 
i'd also recommend that you send them an invoice to cover wages lost on the day of work you took off, where the company representative didnt show up.

Other than that, I wouldnt think about a lawyer just yet, unless it still doesnt get dealt with. Its just going to cost you more. Sending mail by recorded delivery is also a very good idea! If they take it to court, you will be in the right, and any negative credit rating can be reversed. I was in a similair situation with a dodgy letting agency who were trying to get money from us we didnt owe, and they used the same tactic of not responding to any of MY queries.

Remember to keep a cool head!
 
Toasted said:
Bill, my advice in a situation of this magnitude is get to a lawyer.

Good money after bad. Bringing in an attorney over a $192 dispute is a waste.

Is this a reputable collection agency? Are you sure this isn't a scam? If the agency works on behalf of PP, then it is their obligation to call off the dogs if they find that the collection is in error. Ask paypal to give you something, in writing, that shows your account is current, and forward that information to the collection agency via registered post. Do not give them any more information than that. Don't give them any paypal passwords, don't give them any personal identification numbers, etc. Don't talk to them on the phone. Do all of your correspondence in writing. Don't allow them to come into your home.

You can prove that you are current on your PP account. This collection agency doesn't have a leg to stand on. If they file something against your credit report, you can easily have it removed by showing the evidence from PP that your account is current. Don't worry about it too much.

You should pull a current copy of your credit report and check for errors and filings.
 
Toasted said:
Bringing a lawyer in over a case of a bad debt with threatened CCJs/legal procedings and associated damage to credit rating is absolutely not a waste in any way. Your advice is bad advice.

You're right. 12 years experience in banking must mean nothing.

Credit collection agencies are infamous for their heavy-handed techinques for collecting debt. Threat of ruining your credit, lawsuits, etc., are quite common. Most civilized countries has credit protection laws, however, that favor the consumer. If a collection agency files a report of a bad debt, it is simply a matter of proving they are incorrect in order to have it removed. It sounds as though Billy has evidence that these claims are false, so all he would have to do is provide this evidence to the credit reporting agencies, who would remove the bad info within 30 days unless the collection agency can substantiate their claim. Again, the credit reporting agency policies tend to favor the individual in the event of a dispute. My knowledge is specifically in the US, but the consumer credit protection laws in the US and the UK are supposed to be similar.

Billy, before hiring an attorney (who will probably charge you more than $200 per hour) see if you can locate a non-profit consumer credit counseling center in your area (NOT a debt-consolidation company, but a counseling service) and ask them the following:

-Ask them to pull your credit report. Many will do it for free in the event of a dispute
-Ask them for information on this collection agency. Make sure this isn't a scam.
-Ask them about the process of removing a bogus claim from your credit report in the event that this collection company files one. It may be different in the UK, but it is still probably an easy process.

They should do all of this for free and give you some comfort about your legal standing and credit rating.
 
From the experian.uk website regarding victims of credit fraud:

Take action if:

-Your credit/debit card statement includes charges for items you do not recognise;
-A debt collection agency contacts you about goods you did not order or an account you never opened;
-You receive a telephone call or letter telling you that you have been approved or denied credit for applications that you know nothing about.
-It is a good idea to obtain a copy of your credit report so you can check exactly what information is recorded in your name.
 
Reading through that, it sounds like one of those bogus PayPal phishing scams. If PayPal is telling you that you're account is okay, than these people are scamming you.

I've received a few similar emails on email accounts that are in no way connected to my PayPal account. I received one that said my PayPal account was suspended, when in fact it was not. I'd be very careful who you're giving information to on this one. ;)

Best of luck!
 
Have you confirmed your PayPal ID with the collection agency?

Someone may have stolen your identity and used it to open another paypal account, in which case PayPal would say that YOUR account is in good standing, but the collection agency is looking at a second account that you are unaware of.
 
Interesting posts guys, thanks very, very much!! I feel better now. ;)

I didn't think this was a "phishing" scam as such; I've seen loads of those, I just ignore them. They're always by email in my experience and this is different - remember I've actually spoke to people on the phone on several occasions and I had verified NCO as being the legit collection agents for Paypal.

The possibility of someone opening another Paypal account in my name had occurred to me and it may be the explanation. That's up to them to sort out, isn't it?

That business about Mr P Brown visitng on Tuesday is a real hoot, right? :D Thanks for that link very much!

I'm going to give them a few days to respond to my recorded delivery letter and see what they come up with. I won't let them off the hook until I get some satisfaction here - the financial ombudsman site makes it very clear I'm entitled to some sort of compensation in a case like this. What do you think I should be expecting from them? Go on, name your price! :D
 
I wouldn't count on PayPal to sort out the issue.

I had someone steal my debit card number... put a precharge on for an online service. The bank's job was to verify that the number was correct and was matched to my account, which it was; the vendor's job was to make sure that the card number was correct... it was. It was MY responsibility to keep an eye on my bank account and notice any charges that weren't mine, and to alert them ASAP if something was amiss.

Call the collection agency, find out what paypal ID was used. If they can't tell you, call paypal and give them your info, ask for a listing of all the ID's with your information on it. You'll have to take the initiative on this... relying on someone else is not a wise move, IMO.
 

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