Phase Inverting - flipping magnets or flipping Ground/Hot?

[growlinscythe]

Hi everyone

this may seem like a dumb question, but there is two ways to invert the phase of a pickup, right?

You either flip it's magnet (as done on lot of Peter Green Guitar tutorials to get that sound), or, much easier, you just invert ground and hot wires internally, which, in my opinion would be the MUCH easier way to achieve the goal of having out of phase pickups - or does that change the tonality of the outcome?

I couldn't imagine why it would, or if it does, may someone please explain to me?

Thanks!

 

[iiipopes]

On my custom fanned fret P-style bass, https://www.talkbass.com/threads/a-different-custom-p-style-bass.755914/ , I matched a DiMarzio UltraJazz with a Rickenbacker humbucker. I had to try all four wires of the UltraJazz to find which one would work as "hot," then track the wiring accordingly to wire it in conventional series humbucker mode to be in phase both electrically and magnetically with the Rickenbacker humbucker.

 

[b/o 402]

Sure. Either would resulting the output of the pickup being out of phase.

Keep in mind that the old original Gibson pickups (Humbucker or P-90) had one end of the pickup grounded and connected to the shielding.
So, if you wanted to reverse the phase electrically, you'd have to do a bunch of desoldering and re-soldering at the pickup end.
Otherwise, all the shielding on the pickup and cable is working against you rather than for you.

So, it might be easier to just flip the magnet. I've never tried that.

 

[MonetBass]

On Brian May's Red Special, he uses the switches to flip the hot/ground.

 

[ctmullins]

Flip the hot/ground, if you have a separate dedicated shield wire.

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

Hi everyone

this may seem like a dumb question, but there is two ways to invert the phase of a pickup, right?

You either flip it's magnet (as done on lot of Peter Green Guitar tutorials to get that sound), or, much easier, you just invert ground and hot wires internally, which, in my opinion would be the MUCH easier way to achieve the goal of having out of phase pickups - or does that change the tonality of the outcome?

I couldn't imagine why it would, or if it does, may someone please explain to me?

Thanks!

It doesn't change anything until you add another pickup in the circuit. Then, they will either be in phase or out of phase with eachother. Same thing with a speaker. Absolutely nothing changes until you add another one in the circuit. There is no positive or negative. It just changes the flow of electricity. Either its moving one way, or the other through the pickup. The result is the same regardless.

But, it's much easier to just change the wires around on your pots, rather than on the pickups. You could screw your pickup up forever the other way.

 

[micguy]

Flipping the wires will reverse the polarity. It can change a few other details as well. Some pickups have the grounded wire as the finish lead - that means it shields the inner winds electrostatically. So, your pickup may buzz more in certain situations. Also, assuming the magnets/pole pieces are grounded (which helps with electrostatic buzz as well), then reversing the polarity with a wire swap will likely change the amount of interwinding capacitance - the pickup may sound a bit different.

 

[fretno]

If it’s a 2 conductor like a typical PAF then you need to rotate the magnet . If its 4 conductor then you could flip the leads.

 

[kgbeast]

Actually, it depends on what is the goal of this. If you want a hum canceling effect, you need to make the actual cos out of phase (flip the coil wires) like it is done in P bass or J-bass. However that also will cancel the strings sound. To double the strings sound instead of canceling it, you would need also to flip the magnets on one of the coils. So for this event, you do both.
If however, you want a hollow sound in J-bass for example, you would leave the coils alone so they still cancel the unwanted noise, but flip the magnets, which will make the picked up sound of strings out of phase. Since the two pickups I. J-bass picking up different sound, there will be enough left to hear and that would probably be a hallow sound.
It is a fairly common mode in dual pickup guitars to have the out of phase switch, as that creates a weird sound that might be interesting. In bass, it might be too thin to love.
If for example, you just flip the wires in one of the pickups on a J, you will loose the hum canceling effect, and get the "weird" tone. Probably not the effect you are after. Flipping coil wires in a 4 conductor humbucker like MM, you probably loose most of the output and be left with noise.