Phenomenon of Smooth Jazz

[moon-bass]

Radio? Like terrestrial radio? What is that?

I jest. If you can’t find good terrestrial radio, you need to try harder, or consider moving. Seriously, there is so much good listener-supported public terrestrial radio still happening.

Welcome to KRVM.org Public Radio in Eugene, Oregon (no jazz but almost everything else)

KLCC | NPR for Oregonians (yes some after-hours jazz)

Presumably smooth jazz is part of their programming. “I could be wrong”

Listen to JazzSet on KMHD on TuneIn

WWOZ - new Orleans. I mean, jazz, man!

 

[fdeck]

It must be the #1 most consumed genre of music that the most people also claim they don't like. There's a huge market for it. No, it's not really jazz. Who cares.

Indeed, I've had conversations with people who, when they find out that I play jazz, have to tell me all of the things that are wrong with jazz, why jazz will never have a big audience, and the rules on what kinds of jazz are acceptable. Hint: The bassist should hide in the shadows, and strictly never play a solo, because it's just showing off, and the audience hates it.

I used to get annoyed, now I just take it in stride. I play music that most people hate. I'm OK with that. So I sympathize if you love playing smooth jazz and someone says they don't like it.

 

[Spectre Gunner]

Blame it on Clear Channel! They dictated the genre and basically said, do it this way or no radio play. They also bought up jazz radio stations and either killed them or changed the format. Many artists conformed! Some didn't and still do their own thing.

When I first starting listening to satellite radio (years ago) there was a dedicated Jazz Fusion station. I listened to that one the most and discovered some uncommon bands that played originals and were great. I'd seek out and buy their CDs. After a year or so they dropped that station and replaced it with Smooth Jazz and it's been that way ever since.

Nothing against the smooth jazz genre in general just doesn't do it for me but there are exceptions. They don't have to drop Smooth Jazz but, Bring Back Jazz Fusion!

 

[Holdsg]

I played real jazz on piano in Jr high and High School.
I had a teacher, who was a gigging jazz pianist, and I made progress.
Our HS band was pretty good, we won state championship my Jr year of HS. We made a "record". it was fun.
I was one of the few jazz pianists in the state that would not mind playing solos, and I got good remarks during our adjudicated competitions.
So I thought I knew my stuff and was a good player
I got to university and found I knew nothing and was a hack player (everyone else I met was so much better at soloing/comping, could read anything, were writing their own songs, etc. where I was just "covering" Count Basie)
I gave up and just focused on my other studies.
That was the end of my formal jazz training and playing, around 1984.
I was aware of the popular side of jazz all along.
We'd play Spyrogyra and Chuck Mangione songs, as well as Stan Kenton and Buddy Rich.
I liked playing the pop jazz songs a lot more than the traditional. We never really got into be-bop. Too out there for a HS jazz band.
When the first smooth jazz station started up in my town, I listened, and I liked most of it.
I could not stand Kenny G, however, and still can't
So, to me and my experience, smooth/pop jazz is just that...geared to the average listener and commercial success
There is still room for traditional jazz in clubs and on radio...but the audience that appreciates that is quite small. no wonder.
Just like hip hop is most popular (based on sales) music today (and is usually dreadful musically), it's geared to commercial success, not musical integrity.
Not surprising that smooth jazz as a form of music has persisted, because people buy it, go to the shows.

 

[cnltb]

View attachment 4310605

Photo taken before Kenny found out, he didn't get the gig.

 

[bwoodman]

I blame Kenny G.

I’ve always referred to him as Kenny NG

 

[logdrum]

The House That Jazz Built

KBAC 98.1 Radio Free Santa Fe | SantaFe.com

I am sure Radio Free Santa Fe has something as well

Kenny G - When I was travelling Southwest with my soprano sax let me just say I became friends with a cute flight attendant who listens to Kenny-G.

It is actually jazz - I think. Even Pharoah Sanders had to dip in it briefly. The even play some Keith Jarret. But it has been diluted by guys that can not play traditional jazz i.e Kenny G and then they add pop songs in the playlist - there you go. Candy Duffer can play.

 

[Altitude]

Indeed, I've had conversations with people who, when they find out that I play jazz, have to tell me all of the things that are wrong with jazz, why jazz will never have a big audience, and the rules on what kinds of jazz are acceptable. Hint: The bassist should hide in the shadows, and strictly never play a solo, because it's just showing off, and the audience hates it.

I used to get annoyed, now I just take it in stride. I play music that most people hate. I'm OK with that. So I sympathize if you love playing smooth jazz and someone says they don't like it.

Jazz, to me, is the purest expression of music as an art and mathematical science that there is. Nobody can call themselves a complete musician unless they've studied jazz. There are things that are almost impossible to understand in any other context made clear by jazz. It is music theory laid bare.

But, to your point, jazz can be a little inaccessible. Sort of like listening to people speak in a language you don't understand; it's very hard to get any sense of what's being said or of context in jazz if you don't speak the language. Therefore, we jazz musicians are probably cursed to play mostly for one another.

 

[logdrum]

I'm just going with Wynton Marsalis on this one; I don't have his pedigree, education and talent to defend that opinion as thoroughly as he could. Suffice it to say, while it draws on elements of the distinctly Black American mid 20th century art form called jazz, "smooth jazz" lacks most of the defining elements of what I (and Wynton) consider jazz.

At the end of the day, for people who like that sort of thing, that's the sort of thing they like, so no judgement from me. It's hard to argue with enduring commercial success.

It's not my bag, but i imagine some of the Latin jazz i like and make could get pigeon-holed as smooth jazz or easy listening. I still try to keep an edge on it, but I'm definitely not blazing trails by any stretch, so I probably misuse the term jazz myself by Wynton's definitions.

I get where you are coming from, but Wynton even thinks that Joshua Redman is not jazz. I think he also said something about Herbie Hancock's New Standards album as not being jazz. He probably thinks Pat Metheny Group is also not jazz. Not a fan of Wynton at all.

 

[Klangfarbe]

I think this is not just a Phenomenon of Smooth Jazz, but happens to all sub-genres of music. The reason is, that when a new genre is "invented" there is a few recordings that define the rough outlines of this new genre (Like Sound(s), Note choice,scales and so on). After that there is a phase of development and then a phase of codification. When you try to change these initial parameters further, it's more like to invent a new genre "again" than "developing" the old one.

 

[dalkowski]

WWOZ - new Orleans. I mean, jazz, man!

Ya buddee — rockin' it at this very moment!

 

[MVE]

Jazz, to me, is the purest expression of music as an art and as a mathematical and theoretical science that there is. I don't think anyone can call themselves a complete musician unless they've studied jazz. There are things that are almost impossible to understand in any other context made clear by jazz.

But, to your point, it can be a little inaccessible to people who don't have a degree of understanding of it. Sort of like listening to people speak in a language you don't understand; it's very hard to get any sense of what's being said or of context in jazz if you don't speak the language. Therefore, we jazz musicians are probably cursed to play mostly for one another.

I respect your opinion but I strongly feel that this kind of attitude is the nails in the coffin of jazz as a popular form of entertainment. Miles said the art form must move forward, but just moving forward to a place nobody wants to be is a step in the wrong direction.

 

[Altitude]

I get where you are coming from, but Wynton even thinks that Joshua Redman is not jazz. I think he also said something about Herbie Hancock's New Standards album as not being jazz. He probably thinks Pat Metheny Group is also not jazz. Not a fan of Wynton at all.

His point might be that all three of those guys do play jazz but also venture into non-jazz collaborations. He wouldn't be wrong, but I can't see how that takes anything away from the jazz they do play or what Wynton does.

I loved Standard Time Volume 2, but honestly since then Wynton seems to have made the same album about twelve times. He could stand to diversify a little in my opinion.

 

[Altitude]

I respect your opinion but I strongly feel that this kind of attitude is the nails in the coffin of jazz as a popular form of entertainment. Miles said the art form must move forward, but just moving forward to a place nobody wants to be is a step in the wrong direction.

Dude, as a popular form of entertainment jazz has been gone for decades now. It's an enthusiast genre and an educational one.

I do like how jazz finds its way into the R&B stuff we hear out of guys like Kendrick Lamar. In that way it lives on as an ingredient in popular music.

 

[jerry]

I used to DJ a lot of what I would consider "lounge music". The closest thing I would have played to what I think of as "smooth jazz" would probably be Ronny Jordan (who was branded as "acid jazz" at the time). It could be that I have a very narrow concept of what constitutes "smooth jazz" though. When I think of that style what generally first comes to mind is Special EFX on GRP records.

The early Special EFX stuff was so much better than the later recordings, some great rhythm sections. The same with Dave Grusin's GRP label, the early stuff with artist like Dave Valentin was excellent, but as the 80's decade wore on, the production on that label got horrible. IMHO

 

[fdeck]

google the concert schedules of the cats who play it:
- george benson
- dave koz
- david sanborn
- boney james
- gerald albright
- richard elliot
- candy dulfer
- chuck mangione
- mindi abair
- norah jones
- sade
- yada yada

and in their time: grover washington, george duke, chuck loeb, al jarreau, joe sample, yada yada

Thanks. It's funny that I'm really detached from that scene. And perhaps for that reason, I don't even know what qualifies. If it's defined by airplay, then I'm oblivious. On gigs, I've played "feels so good" and "don't know why."

 

[logdrum]

His point might be that all three of those guys do play jazz but also venture into non-jazz collaborations. He wouldn't be wrong, but I can't see how that takes anything away from the jazz they do play or what Wynton does.

I loved Standard Time Volume 2, but honestly since then Wynton seems to have made the same album about twelve times. He could stand to diversify a little in my opinion.

He might not even like Miles Davis I am talking the Wayne Shorter - led band not electric Miles - not rnough Gershwin and American show tunes content in that.

Just on the tone and trumpet chops, many guys can do better than Wynton. he got that Royalty set up early on -cleverly I may add

And he is so divorced from the politics of that music unless it is convenient for him. Sorry man Wynton makes my blood boil. Saw him Dallas in 2002 - some folks walked out because of his comments.

 

[projectapollo]

Steely Dan stopped making records.

 

[Pings Bass]

I get where you are coming from, but Wynton even thinks that Joshua Redman is not jazz. I think he also said something about Herbie Hancock's New Standards album as not being jazz. He probably thinks Pat Metheny Group is also not jazz. Not a fan of Wynton at all.

hah if you'd a told me I'd be defending Wynton... anyway, I don't agree with him 100%, and think maybe he's a wee bit uptight about it. But he's from a preeminent American jazz family and has a right to his learned and lived opinions on the subject.

Personally, I don't consider much of what's called "jazz" today to be in the same genre as the mid-century masters. But I also don't care what anybody wants to call their music or how the industry categorizes it. I will admit to having been befuddled as a jazz sax player in the 90s having people ask me if I play Kenny G. It got to the point where I stopped advertising my act for wedding gigs because I just could not.

 

[Robot.G]

[QUOTE="ElectroVibe, post: 25385411, member: 238816"

Discuss this phenomenon or your favorite artists in the genre.[/QUOTE]

Favorite "artists" in this "genre" ??? None.

This "phenomenon" is all about corporate greed. It's not music. It's not art. It's just a paycheck.