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Double Bass Phil Jones and the red light led….

Barcza

Barcza

May 1, 2005
1,175
259
Budapest
www.myspace.com
#1
I just recently buy a Phil Jones BG-110 Bass Cub II combo amp.
I didn’t expect too much volume, but I bring it few times to vey quiet club gigs, just to help a little to the double bass own sound….
But always in a while green power led indicator turn to red, and the amp stops sounding. Surprisingly when power off the amp the red light is still lights wor minutes….After 5 minutes i can start again with the amp…
The I didn’t expect too much, but the volume was so quiet the bass acoustically was three times as loud as the amp….

what do you think it’s normal?

I wrote to Phil Jones support, they say:

“The BG110 is Not made for performance.
It for home practice and the studio. Looks like you pushing the amp too hard
and the input level is peaking out. This is not normal. I wouldn't recommend
the amp for performance.”

Bit if use not loud, the amp knows, I am on a gig not at home….
 
#4
The manual is not clear on how the protection circuit works. Many amps light a red LED and mute the output when an amp goes into protect mode. Some will stay in protect mode until the amp has cooled down to a safe level, and some require the amp to be turned off to return to normal operation.

No idea how loud the amp should be, but you can only expect so much from a pair of 5" drivers and 100W. I have played the original Bass Briefcase which was rated at 100W. IMHO, while it sounded decent, I thought the SPL it could produce was pathetic given the price. Barely louder than my Tacoma ABG. Pushing the amp too hard could cause it to overheat and enter protect mode.

So it's possible the amp is damaged, but it's also possible that you are simply pushing it too hard.
 
#7
Wasnex said:
The manual is not clear on how the protection circuit works. Many amps light a red LED and mute the output when an amp goes into protect mode. Some will stay in protect mode until the amp has cooled down to a safe level, and some require the amp to be turned off to return to normal operation.

No idea how loud the amp should be, but you can only expect so much from a pair of 5" drivers and 100W. I have played the original Bass Briefcase which was rated at 100W. IMHO, while it sounded decent, I thought the SPL it could produce was pathetic given the price. Barely louder than my Tacoma ABG. Pushing the amp too hard could cause it to overheat and enter protect mode.

So it's possible the amp is damaged, but it's also possible that you are simply pushing it too hard.
Click to expand...
That’s my dilemma, the amp still has warranty,I like to know it works as it should or not before I try to validate the warranty….Suspicious, that the drummer was quiet play a lot with brushes, and we don't really hear the amp, the bass acoustically was way louder…I had GK MB 150 for years, it solved tree times as loud gigs easily….
 
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#8
Barcza said:
That’s my dilemma, the amp still has warranty,I like to know it works as it should or not before I try to validate the warranty….Suspicious, that the drummer was quiet play a lot with brushes, and we don't really hear the amp, the bass acoustically was way louder…I had GK MB 150 for years, it solved tree times as loud gigs easily….
Click to expand...

I suspect the amp is just not loud enough for your needs. Any chance you could try another before your warranty expires.

Or, do you know anyone with an electronics background who could do some basic tests to make sure it's putting out the rated power.
 
#11
Make sure it’s set to “passive” and not “active.”

Also, my first gen cub got along tremendously well with the first gen FDECK HPF-PRE (the plastic one with the gain boost) for extra power and clarity.
 
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#12
I use an underwood pickup into channel 2. I have the switch all the way down in the "high" position. Bass and treble 1/2 way up, mid, 1/4 up. Master volume 3/4, limiter off. With the input volume at 1/4, I am too loud in a coffee house with a grand piano, loud guitarist, and sometimes a sax.
 
#13
JBarz said:
….”

Also, my first gen cub got along tremendously well with the first gen FDECK HPF-PRE (the plastic one with the gain boost) for extra power and clarity.
Click to expand...
The HPFpre 1 and 2 have only a small boost of 3 dB. That is hardly audible.
It could’ve the amp, the cable or the pickup. I would try a different amp to compare.

If the amp has a gain control open it up to max, also the master. If it is still softer than the acoustic output, either something is damaged in the chain or you are extremely loud acoustically.

100W is not that much, but the old Polytones had 80 or 100W and were used with combo size ensembles on stage some decades ago. And their input impedance is 330 KOhms.

I know you want to know primarily if your amp is damaged or not, but using a high pass filter can get more of your amps power to the frequency range you need and remove the low frequency mud that takes a lot of power from the amp.

BTW, my very first amp was a cheap 10W transistorized guitar amp with a rather large cabinet (originally used for an electric guitar). I used it with a Schaller magnetic pickup and it at least doubled the acoustic output from the bass (plywood 3/4) when I finished high school. No limiter, so I could drive it as much as possible.
I couldn’t get the Barcus berry piezo that my parents bought for me before working with that amp (could be the amp or my wrong pickup mounting, no instructions), so I changed it to the Schaller.
 
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#15
Barcza said:
The I didn’t expect too much, but the volume was so quiet the bass acoustically was three times as loud as the amp….
Click to expand...

I used to have a PJB "double 4". Sometime during covid lockdown it became quiet but I didn't realise, and when live rehearsals started again I sold it - just thinking it had been a bad buy and wasn't loud enough for what I needed. The buyer identified the pre-amp was damaged and had a repair shop fit a generic pre-amp board. Maybe it's a similar problem?
 
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#17
I'm sure that you've thought of this, but could your preamp be too hot, causing the input to clip? That would turn the light red, I don't know that it would shut it down. Also, I'm surprised that Phil Jones was so dismissive of your issues, they were very helpful to me (but that was a long time ago).
 
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#18
Today I tested again the amp at home, for about 30 minutes…
I setup the gain around 11 o’clock, set the compressor at 9 o’clock (the compressos start working) and the output volume at maximum. With 5 string electric bass, sounds seems big at the small room, easily handling the low B full sound…The green led doesn't switch to red, after I tired my old German Wilson K1 equipped bass with it, with a same setting… I din’t realize the bass was any louder than without the amp, my bass is an old bass with big acoustic sound and I pluck hard….
 
#19
mooseonbass said:
I'm sure that you've thought of this, but could your preamp be too hot, causing the input to clip? That would turn the light red, I don't know that it would shut it down. Also, I'm surprised that Phil Jones was so dismissive of your issues, they were very helpful to me (but that was a long time ago).
Click to expand...

this was Phil Jones Answer:


“Thanks for reaching out to me. FYI the BG110 is Not made for performance .
It for home practice and the studio. Looks like you pushing the amp too hard
and the input level is peaking out. This is not normal. I wouldn't recommend
the amp for performance . You might want to check out the suitcase combo
in the future.
Thanks”

i tired to ask more question in next mail, but did not answer…

If this amp is really unusable on a small club gig, and doesn’t add any noticable help to the acoustic sound….I say its way overpriced, becouse you can buy a decent amp for that for 200€…..This amp has 100W power, it’s the same as GK MB150 without external cabinet, and it fits any jazz gig with loud drummer too…
 
#20
Yeah, there's 100% an issue with your amp. Confirmed. PJB gear does not like to be cranked. 12 o'clock is the sweetspot, imho - and you should hear it... Take it back to your local dealer (!), or insist that Phil Jones issue a repair authorization. PM me and I can slip you the email of the guy in charge of their repair department. Nice guy, but they've got a lot going on over there - it can take a while to hear back, depending...
 
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