Phil Lynott's Rick 4001

[Deleted member 271037]

Very cool band, very cool bass player! I actually haven't listened to Thin Lizzy for YEARS! I've got some musician friends coming over tonight and there will definitely be some TL vinyl spinning! Perfect music for a couple of beers and to get psyched up for a jam session afterwards!!!

As for the Rick... It probably self destructed. Or maybe he simply preferred the tone of a P-bass. Who knows?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I was a big Lizzy fan back in the day, and I've always wondered why Philo gave the 4001 up. BY 1974 he was using the 4001 after moving to that bass from the Dan Armstrong, By 1975, he could also be seen using a 4000. But by early 1976, the Precision that had sat as his back-up now, with the reflective 'plate, became his main; another P supplementing as back-up.

I've often wondered why he sacked the Rick. Was it the neck misbehaving? Or did the Precision win over as more ballsy? I'd also love to know what happened to that 4001.

View attachment 5139663

I had the same rig back in the 70s including the Ric 4001 about two years before “The Boys Are Back in Town”was released. It was an ROS setup, neck pickup went to the Acoustic, the bridge pickup when to the Hiwatt. By the time that record hit, I had swapped out the Acoustic rig for an SVT and an Ampeg V4-B 215 reflex cab.
It was a huge improvement, it more than kept up with a cranked Marshall stack and the loudest drummer on the planet and totally ridiculous by today’s standards. That said, it was a killer set up!

 

[dbsfgyd1]

It might very well have been the neck. 4001's with the neck pickup in that position (like my '73 4001) - especially very early ones - are susceptible to a condition where the very small, thin piece of wood under the very large route for the neck pickup, can turn into a hinge if the string tension is too high. The neck will begin to rise up - like a drawbridge opening - and, there's nothing to be done about it. Without a lot of repair time, and spending a lot of money... And, given the fact that lots of people put round wounds on their Ricks - usually Roto 66's back then - which had a lot more tension than the factory German Maxima Flats? That could very well be what happened to his 4001. As for his 4000? I couldn't say. If it was old enough, it wouldn't have even been a neck-thru bass, and in any case, the single pickup wasn't in that very weak neck position. Maybe he just got tired of the Rick's "it's like playing a pencil" neck. From personal experience with both of mine, I gotta say - they do take some getting used to...

Interesting. my 4001 was the first year (I think 74) that didn’t come with the toaster neck pickup and the binding was all off white (no houndstooth pattern). The stock Rickenbacker strings (replaced often @ $24 a pop) were replaced by BassBoomer (@ $16 a pop and replaced less often) caused no problem in the 34 years I owned it.

 

[GIBrat51]

Interesting. my 4001 was the first year (I think 74) that didn’t come with the toaster neck pickup and the binding was all off white (no houndstooth pattern). The stock Rickenbacker strings (replaced often @ $24 a pop) were replaced by BassBoomer (@ $16 a pop and replaced less often) caused no problem in the 34 years I owned it.

From what I've read, 4001's lost the checkerboard binding sometime in April of 1973. They lost the horseshoe/toaster pickups sometime around July/August of 1973. Sadly - for me - my '73 4001 was made in October... However... if you bought your '74 new, it still would have come with the Maxima flats; which, again from what I've read, didn't have a reputation for wearing out quickly. In fact, I still have a suspicion that the nasty, dirty, raggedy silk flats that were on my 4001, were the original factory flats. While they were definitely a biohazard, they still tuned up; intonated; and played just fine. I'm still bummed about throwing them away... But, yeah, the Rick factory rounds? I have used them - especially the Light Nickel Rounds - and while they were pretty nice (for rounds), they didn't win any prizes for longevity. And, like a lot of factory strings, most of Rick's strings were - and still are - made by D'Addario, although SIT makes them, too.... Because I liked the sound of the Maxima flats that I learned to play bass on, my '01 4003 wears the Optima RB clones. Because my 4001 is starting to suffer that neck problem that they sometimes develop, I had very low tension Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats on it. But, I took them off when I decided to sell it. The buyer will get it with a set of Hybrid Slinkys on it - which, to tell the truth? Don't sound too bad on there...

 

[PhR75]

He transitioned to the Precision a bit earlier than '76. He was using the Ric towards the end of their run as a 3 piece, 1973, and just into the 4 piece era and the first album as a 4 piece, 1974, with the Nightlife album. By 1975, with the Fighting album, he was using the Precision.

"Fighting" still has that Ric tone. Even "Warriors" from "Jailbreak" sounds like a Ric but he definitely moved to a P-bass at that time.

The 4000 was already in use in 1973, could be even earlier, I think he had it before the 4001. Live recordings from '73 and '74 also have him using the Ric-O-Sound with a wah-wah on the bridge pickup channel ("Showdown" for example).

 

[dbsfgyd1]

From what I've read, 4001's lost the checkerboard binding sometime in April of 1973. They lost the horseshoe/toaster pickups sometime around July/August of 1973. Sadly - for me - my '73 4001 was made in October... However... if you bought your '74 new, it still would have come with the Maxima flats; which, again from what I've read, didn't have a reputation for wearing out quickly. In fact, I still have a suspicion that the nasty, dirty, raggedy silk flats that were on my 4001, were the original factory flats. While they were definitely a biohazard, they still tuned up; intonated; and played just fine. I'm still bummed about throwing them away... But, yeah, the Rick factory rounds? I have used them - especially the Light Nickel Rounds - and while they were pretty nice (for rounds), they didn't win any prizes for longevity. And, like a lot of factory strings, most of Rick's strings were - and still are - made by D'Addario, although SIT makes them, too.... Because I liked the sound of the Maxima flats that I learned to play bass on, my '01 4003 wears the Optima RB clones. Because my 4001 is starting to suffer that neck problem that they sometimes develop, I had very low tension Dogal Jaco Carbonsteel Flats on it. But, I took them off when I decided to sell it. The buyer will get it with a set of Hybrid Slinkys on it - which, to tell the truth? Don't sound too bad on there...

Thanks much for the info. The original strings on my bass were probably replaced with in a month and thrown away. I used Rickenbacker flats I guessing for about a year. I was on the road somewhere is western Maryland and broke a string ( try to find Rickenbacker branded strings in Garret County) and put on some Bass Boomers and that is what was on it ever since. In fact, I haven't had a bass with flat wound stings on it since.

I wasn't aware there were Rickenbacker round wound strings. Interesting. Again, thanks for in info.

 

[Gunga Din]

He got a P bass

No shid, Sherlock.

 

[Gunga Din]

"Fighting" still has that Ric tone. Even "Warriors" from "Jailbreak" sounds like a Ric but he definitely moved to a P-bass at that time.

The 4000 was already in use in 1973, could be even earlier, I think he had it before the 4001. Live recordings from '73 and '74 also have him using the Ric-O-Sound with a wah-wah on the bridge pickup channel ("Showdown" for example).

'Showdown' is almost a Soul track. It shows how diversified they were back then.

 

[Erik Stokley]

In an interview from 1978 titled "what makes a renegade tick" he speaks about why he stopped using Rickenbackers.

 

[Gluvhand]

In an interview from 1978 titled "what makes a renegade tick" he speaks about why he stopped using Rickenbackers.

View attachment 5190513

This would've been later than '78 but still a good story.

 

[Erik Stokley]

This would've been later than '78 but still a good story.

Woops, you are correct. The interview was from 1981.

 

[bobba66]

The P Bass established dominance over the rest of the pack as they so often do.

 

[Gluvhand]

The P Bass established dominance over the rest of the pack as they so often do.

Lol. Not so fast. The P was supplanted by various Ibanez which eventually gave way to the Roland bass.

 

[Gluvhand]

And here’s the man’s Precision from the Irish Rock And Roll Hall of Fame. Sorry for the derail.

 

[sc_precision]

I’m curious how long he used a jazz bass for. There is a picture of him holding one and in the video for “The Rocker” but same clothes in both so maybe was only used for that video.

I think Phil switched to the precision because they started moving towards a heavier sound midway into their history but Phil did use the roto flatwounds on the P bass on his Ric too. Sounds cool on the “Gonna Creep Up On You” intro.

I used to own a Ric but they are definitely a love or hate bass. Loved the sound but not crazy about the shape anymore and that awful bridge. It just cannot stand up to the sturdiness of a Fender.

 

[HaphAsSard]

I think Phil switched to the precision because they started moving towards a heavier sound midway into their history but Phil did use the roto flatwounds on the P bass on his Ric too. Sounds cool on the “Gonna Creep Up On You” intro.

Cuff, do I love that song. I'm a sucker for the Eric Bell era.

 

[M-Mittlesteadt]

Wow. I love Thin Lizzy and Phil Lynotte.

I'm at work and while I was reading this, "The Boys are Back in Town" came on over the speakers here. Even stranger is that we almost never have this station on at work.

I didn't even know he owned a Rick. I thought he only played Precisions. I had one of those early 4001's (checkerboard binding around the body) and it played and sounded great (Rotosound roundwounds) and never seem to have any neck issues.

 

[bunnykeeper]

I play in a Thin Lizzy tribute band, and I'm looking to put a new pickup in one of my P-basses. Conventional wisdom would say go with a DiMarzio Model P, right?

Maybe not so fast. I've been thinking about this quite a bit for the last few days. Did Phil really use a Model P on Live and Dangerous (the LP we base our sound and arrangements on)? After doing some digging, it seems the Model P was released in 1977. Live and Dangerous was recorded in November 1976 and October 1977. So one would assume he wasn't using the Model P at Hammersmith in 1976. Did he already have the Model P for the October shows in Philly and Toronto, the same year the pickup was released?

Here are some photos from the Philly show at the Tower Theatre, with a black pickup and rosewood fretboard: Thin Lizzy, Concert, Tower Theatre, Upper Darby, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, US, 20th October 1977, Ticket, Photos, Story, Thin Lizzy Guide made by Peter Nielsen

I need to do a bit more photo research, but was the cream pickup always on the P with the maple fretboard? I haven't seen any photos of a cream pickup matched with the rosewood neck he uses on the album cover. The photo from the Irish R&R Hall of Fame shows a cream Model P, judging from the pole pieces. Is that the only Model P he used?

I'll get back to my research in the morning, but in the meantime, does anybody out there have any input?

 

[PhR75]

The cream pickup was added sometime in 1979. There's loads of pictures on the sleeve of Live and Dangerous with the original pickup intact.

 

[bunnykeeper]

Thanks for the info. Earliest picture I can find on thinlizzyguide.com of the maple/cream combo is dated March 3, 1979. There are also plenty of photos of him playing the rosewood/black pickup later that year.