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Double Bass Pickup samples

#22
Michael Glynn said:
Exactly. If we tried these exact same pickups on a different bass, or with a different amp, the results would probably be completely different.
Click to expand...

Point taken, but they wouldn't be "completely" different. Pickups have characteristics and some are more consistent bass to bass that others.

Bridge wing pickups all have a similar character, for example, that is distinct from say, a Realist.
 
#23
aledeville said:
Nice comparison. Thumps up for the fast Au Privave :-)

I couldn't take part of the guessing game because I didn't really played with any of those pickups or mics. I have the Wilson K4 since ever.
However I'm looking for a nice blending option...
Click to expand...

I used the K4 blended with the Realist for a while. Blended it with a Ravenlabs blender. (not sold anymore)
It was probably the best sound I've ever had. With a good blender you get the best of both pickups. Great match up.
The Underwood was a surprisingly good match up too.
 
#24
TroyK said:
Point taken, but they wouldn't be "completely" different. Pickups have characteristics and some are more consistent bass to bass that others.

Bridge wing pickups all have a similar character, for example, that is distinct from say, a Realist.
Click to expand...
True, they do have unique characteristics, but whether the good or bad parts of them are emphasized varies from bass to bass...Actually, I'm thinking that we aren't putting enough emphasis on the role of the amplifier in this. The bass is one thing, but different amps/preamps can make the sound of pickups change tremendously. Some of this is probably impedance, but I think other things like the EQ voicing and distortion characteristics have a big effect, too.

I mentioned how the BassDriver DI really improves the sound of some piezos, especially the Underwood. The funny thing is, I've had to roll the mids almost all the way off with both the EA and the Acoustic Image to get the Underwood to sound decent, but with the SansAmp I can often leave it pretty flat. I do however usually have the "blend" all the way up and the "drive" up part way. I believe that this introduces some compression and also introduces some pleasant sounding distortion that seems to mellow out the harsh piezo sound. I've noticed similar effects with old tube amps (which the BassDriver DI is trying to emulate) and also with the Walter Woods amp, which, I've heard, has a pretty high level of distortion. I guess what I'm saying is that the flattest, cleanest sounding amp is not necessarily the best for piezo pickups. And some pickups seem to be more picky (e.g. Underwood) and other less picky (e.g. Planet Wing, Full Circle) about the amp.
 
#25
Interesting, I've never played with a SansAmp, but have always meant to. One of the big selling points of the Realist is/was that it almost sounded the same amp to amp, impedance be damned. One of the drawbacks to the Realist is that it was tough to get any other sound out of it.
 
#26
B String said:
I used the K4 blended with the Realist for a while. Blended it with a Ravenlabs blender. (not sold anymore)
It was probably the best sound I've ever had. With a good blender you get the best of both pickups. Great match up.
The Underwood was a surprisingly good match up too.
Click to expand...
Hm... this is interesting!
I thought about blending it with a mic that would depict the upper harmonics as accurate as possible. The K4 is a monster considering the low end, but in the highs it's not that authentic.
I'd use it with a AI Clarus 2r.

I think I'll look into the Realist :)
 
#28
I liked #4 as well. That said, I use a Kay Bass and the OP said he did not like the C411 on that bass. So I would like ask which of these pickups sounds best (or most like the C411) on your Kay?
 
#29
Macher said:
Woow just discovering this thread!


Any thoughts about which one would sound good bowing??

For loud gigs, any of them to avoid, mainly because of feedback?

Any thoughts about how the FC would sound in comparison?
Click to expand...

Sorry, just noticed the new replies to this thread. I intentionally didn't put any arco samples on there, because I was afraid I would suck too much! But in my experience, the C411 and ATM25 are best for arco. The Planet Wing isn't bad either. I've had trouble with other wing pickups like the Underwood, where I feel that I have to change the EQ and gain to get the sound right between arco and pizz. While it's not in these samples, I do remember that the Full Circle was very good in this regard--I got a very consistent sound when switching between pizz and arco. Not as harsh and scratchy as some of the wing pickups can be as well.

For loud gigs, out of these ones, I think the Underwood might be best. The Planet Wing is good for this as well. The real mic (ATM25) and C411 are more picky about feedback, of course. The usual problems I've run into are an excessively boomy sound (with the ATM25), or just certain notes that get really loud (with the C411). The second problem can sometimes be mitigated with a good notch filter or parametric EQ. In any case, if you have a full PA, I would try to avoid putting either of these into the monitors.

Regarding the FC, see above about arco, and in general I felt it was the most "hassle-free" pickup I have ever had. Besides the arco/pizz consistency, it sounded pretty good no matter what amp I put it into, and it had a good, even sound across the range of the instrument. Never had any feedback issues with it either. I feel like I can get a slightly better sound with the Planet Wing or even Underwood, but it takes some effort.
 
#30
REV said:
I liked #4 as well. That said, I use a Kay Bass and the OP said he did not like the C411 on that bass. So I would like ask which of these pickups sounds best (or most like the C411) on your Kay?
Click to expand...

These days I generally use the Planet Wing mixed with a mic on the Kay. I actually don't use the ATM25 under the tailpiece, because it really dampened certain notes on that bass. Instead I use a different mic (usually an Audix F2--not great, but not bad) sticking through the string afterlengths, facing the body of the bass. Depending on the gig I either play acoustically, just add some mic, or add mic and pickup as needed. This doesn't really sound like the C411, but I feel like I get a good mix of clarity (from the Planet Wing) and realism (from the mic). I have the Kay strung up with guts, so that probably has some effect as well.

Out of the piezos, the Planet Wing is the clear winner on my Kay. I had a much more difficult time getting a good sound out of the others.
 
#36
IdealWay said:
Thanks for the comparison!

I've been using the Planet Wing for about a year now and (mostly) love it. I'd like more presence from the G string and bet adding a mic to that side would help... That being said, how did you go about running the mic and Planet Wing together? Thanks.
Click to expand...

I have an EA Doubler amp now that has 2 separate channels, including one with a mic input. So it is quite simple to mix the two. If your amp has only one channel than you have one or two options. One is to get a dedicated mixer with a mic input, like the Headway EDB-1, D-Tar Solstice, and others. Another option that I used with my single channel Acoustic Image was to run the mic into the main input, then run the pickup through my Sansamp and plug that into the effects return on the Acoustic Image. That way I had separate EQ and gain for the mic and pickup (plus I liked what the Sansamp did for the piezo sound).
 
#37
Michael Glynn said:
C411 - This had been sitting in my closet for a couple of years as I hadn't had a phantom power source for a while. When I recently got the Doubler I pulled it out and it sounded so good that now it is my first choice on my carved bass. It doesn't sound so good on my Kay. As with all contact mics, position is incredibly important. I put it above the bass bar, about 6-8 inches below the bridge. It is more feedback resistant than a mic, but at high volumes certain notes can get boomy. A notch filter helps sometimes.
Click to expand...

Michael, thanks so much for the samples. I've been thinking about a pickup, so this was really interesting.

I saw the frequency response for the C411 on AKG's website; it's about +10 dB up to 100 Hz, and then slopes to 0 dB by about 600 Hz. Seems like a wreck for double bass purposes.

C411response.png



I ran your C411 sample back through a filter in Adobe Audition, and I think I like it even better with the EQ. Judging by the sound on your recordings, I'm sure you have the EQ all dialed in, but thought I'd mention this. I'm thinking of picking one of these up and building a little filter box for it to correct the built-in response.

Really dig the playing, by the way; that Heptagon track is hip!

Dave
 
#38
dstrandberg said:
Michael, thanks so much for the samples. I've been thinking about a pickup, so this was really interesting.

I saw the frequency response for the C411 on AKG's website; it's about +10 dB up to 100 Hz, and then slopes to 0 dB by about 600 Hz. Seems like a wreck for double bass purposes.

I ran your C411 sample back through a filter in Adobe Audition, and I think I like it even better with the EQ. Judging by the sound on your recordings, I'm sure you have the EQ all dialed in, but thought I'd mention this. I'm thinking of picking one of these up and building a little filter box for it to correct the built-in response.

Really dig the playing, by the way; that Heptagon track is hip!

Dave
Click to expand...

Yeah, the freq. response chart on the C411 looks very unpromising for the bass, but I've actually mostly had to cut the mids rather than the lows in practice.

It could be that the way they measure the response just isn't as reliable for contact mics as "regular" mics. With a normal mic, you would normally measure the frequency response of pink noise through the air (hopefully in an anechoic chamber), whereas with a contact mic, the sound is passing through a solid object instead of air. So I wonder how they measured it at all--blast pink noise into a wooden board and attach the C411 to it? What kind of wood and how thick? Or was it plastic instead of wood. Or did they just suspend the mic in mid air and measure the response as they would with any other mic?

On top of that you have the varying frequency outputs from different parts of the bass--depending on where you put the pickup, the sound can be drastically different. So in general, I would say that the frequency response chart for a contact mic probably doesn't tell us much in real world terms. It's definitely a trial and error sort of issue. I've also noticed that I need to EQ more for different rooms with the contact mic than with a piezo pickup.

I imagine a preset filter could help get you to a good starting point tone-wise, but I have had pretty good success just taking it room by room and adjusting the EQ to get the most effective sound for that venue. By most effective sound, I don't necessarily mean most accurate tone either, but the one that is the best compromise of accuracy, clarity, attack/decay profile, etc. In any case, I have found that with a combination of amp EQ and mic placement, the C411 is quite flexible in this regard.

I should also mention that none of the recordings of me on soundcloud other than the pickup samples use the C411 or any other pickup other than actual microphones. While I'm very happy with the C411 for live use, I've never really been pleased with it for recording other than as a very minor component of the mix.
 

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