Double Bass Pizzicato with the German bow

[AGCurry]

I'm new to orchestra playing and have attended one rehearsal so far. Some of the pieces have significant pizzicato, and one has lots of switches between arco and pizz with very little time allowed for the switches.

I have questions. I'll ask my teacher, but he's a French-hold guy and may not have the tricks of the trade that German-hold players use.

1. If I'm not mistaken, French-hold players pizz with the stick pointed up. This is awkward with the German hold, because a) more manipulation is needed to point the stick up and then get it situated back for arco, and b) the width of the frog makes it hard to pluck forcefully and quickly. Letting the stick point down risks hitting the strings with the stick. How to do it? Should I play the arco sections with a faux-French hold?

2. To the "pluck forcefully" issue, should I not try to use the basic "jazz pizz" technique but, rather, go for "perpendicular to the string?"

3. Can I just cheat and play arco/staccato in pizz sections?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Quinn Roberts]

This is a never-ending battle for me. The best thing to do is to quiver it or set it the music stand, but this is impractical if the transitions from arco to pizz and back happen too quick. When I can't ditch the bow I tend to flip it downward like you described, pointing the stick towards the ground. I sorta put the bottom corner of the frog into my palm and grab the top of the bow with my pinkie and ring finger. You do risk hitting the bass this way, but it's the only way I can think of to functionally playing pizz while still holding the bow. Like you, I tend to have trouble playing pizz forcefully with this hold though so I'll be interested to hear other people's techniques and secrets.

Also, if the transition to pizz happens rather quickly, you can grab the string with your index finger while your flipping the bow down for a quick note, though this further increases the risk of hitting the bass. It seemed silly to me at first, but I had to (and still do) practice not striking the bass when I transition to pizz.

To me, pizz is just one of those things that make me question my choice of bow style from time to time; I'm sure there's things that make French players question theirs as well though so at the end of the day it is what it is I guess.

 

[Sean Riddle]

Pointing the stick downwards is the common practice of holding the German bow while playing pizz. What I do is essentially drop my bow down and have the frog hang from my pinky. I then use my ring finger to hold the bow in place, allowing me to rest my thumb against the fingerboard and use my index and middle finger for pizz. I can’t really have the side of my index finger wrap around the string so my fingers have to pluck at a more horizontal bass guitar way, but I’m still able to get a strong enough sound though.

Fast pizz arco transitions suck with the German bow. French really wins in that regards. But with enough practice it can me manageable.

 

[eerbrev]

I'm new to orchestra playing and have attended one rehearsal so far. Some of the pieces have significant pizzicato, and one has lots of switches between arco and pizz with very little time allowed for the switches.

I have questions. I'll ask my teacher, but he's a French-hold guy and may not have the tricks of the trade that German-hold players use.

1. If I'm not mistaken, French-hold players pizz with the stick pointed up. This is awkward with the German hold, because a) more manipulation is needed to point the stick up and then get it situated back for arco, and b) the width of the frog makes it hard to pluck forcefully and quickly. Letting the stick point down risks hitting the strings with the stick. How to do it? Should I play the arco sections with a faux-French hold?

2. To the "pluck forcefully" issue, should I not try to use the basic "jazz pizz" technique but, rather, go for "perpendicular to the string?"

3. Can I just cheat and play arco/staccato in pizz sections?

Thanks in advance!

fast switches between pizz and arco are difficult for all bow styles. It's something you have to both practice, and find your own workaround for. If I know I have no time to switch, I don't really modify my bow hold at all, I just sort of pizz the best I can while keeping my bow in hand. If it's a really, really fast change you might just have to drop a pizz'd note to get back into the arco entrance on time (In a section you can divide this responsibility, but IIRC you're alone).

for when you *do* have time, and this is something you need to practice slow, there's a rotational movement of the right wrist as you "drop" or "lower" the bow. I tend to play with pretty flat hair, so I can almost look at my palm while bowing. The rotation makes it so that I'm looking at the top of my thumb/side of my hand. From there I can use my index or thumb to pizz.

And I literally do almost "drop" my bow. I let the weight of the tip drop, and - using my thumb to keep it in my hand - let it slip through my fingers until it swings on my pinky finger and I clasp the rest of my fingers around it.

From A to B:


A note that "B" is a little skewed because I had no room to really hold my bow where I was.

Some people do pizz closer to the left hand - it can result in a slightly clearer sound, and it gets rid of the potential for your bow to smack your bow stand - but it does mean more movement to get back to arco.

As to "how" to pizz, i.e. what part of the finger to use, and which finger, a "jazz" pizz gets the job done most of the time, just don't let your left hand make it "mwah" - keep a strong finger weight on to sustain the note, or release it all together to mute the note.

In slower movements, often a thumb pizz is nice. It's a lot more round and warm.

Unfortunately, however, just a short staccato note's not going to do it.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

To add to what has been said above, be super aware of whacking the bridge or music stand with your bow. It will sound like a snare rim shot. It often seems to happen during ppp.

We all have done it. I got caught hitting the music stand in a live chamber orchestra video recording a couple of years ago. The conductor, also a cellist in the symphony, has mentioned now and then the bass section behind him really wake everybody up with hitting things. And these are pros.

Plus one for the nice sound of thumb pizz when it can be used. There is also a cool way of swinging the German bow into place when it’s time for arco again.

 

[LouisF]

 

[elberon]

Do as stated above (drop the tip toward the ground) but definitely get a quiver if you don't have one yet. Secure it well so it doesn't swing around when you use it. Sometimes when you're sharing a stand with someone, they can pizz while you play arco or vice versa. Same thing happens when turning pages sometimes, one plays while the other turns the page. I hate composers (or arrangers) that write in ridiculously impossible arco to pizz changes.

 

[AGCurry]

Some great tips here. Thank you!

 

[Wasnex]

I originally preferred German, and one of the reasons was because it was easy to switch back and forth between pizz and arco, and also because keeping the bow in my hand did not significantly hinder my pizz technique.

The tip of the bow goes down and you learn to do the transition quickly without smashing into things. I believe there is sort of a flick where you raise your hand quickly, the bow rotates along its length, and the tip drops simultaneously. It's been decades, but I believe the pinky went into the slot of the frog as the tip dropped, and the ring finger went over the shaft. The bow screw was then wedged securely into the angle between my thumb and index finger. This left my index finger and middle finger almost 100% unobstructed for plucking.

I was way more likely to smash things if I tried to ram the bow into a quiver. Better for me to have a stand or small table with a thick towel IMHO.

Holding a French bow while playing pizz gets in the way significantly more than a German bow, but for some reason I had significantly more speed and finesse playing arco with a French bow; so I had to transition to French. If I have to play a fast technical pizz pattern,I try to find a way to put the bow down.

 

[Dogfightgiggle]

One thing that I’d add, and this might just be my weird way of doing things, but here’s the actual technique of sounding the note that I use:

Basically I think of the string as a button that I need to press down to the fingerboard.

When I contact the wood I act as if my hand is being repelled by it, sort of feeling it lofting out away from the bass.

Somewhere in the there the string is plucked basically of its own accord. I don’t intentionally apply horizontal force.

Also, I find that the lofting gesture somehow adds to the bloom and roundness of the note.

 

[16fuss]

I do it exactly as in the video @LouisF posted. I kind of hoped that this technic was my invention...

 

[neilG]

Here's the lick that will test whether or not you've got your arco to pizz. moves sorted out:

 

[AGCurry]

The piece with the quick switches is "Liebenfreude" by Fritz Kreisler. 3/4, allegro, with one quarter rest allowed to come from pizz to arco.

In our rehearsal last Monday night, I actually had less trouble with it than I expected. Main problem was setting the bow well on the string after the switch.

 

[Matthias Hacker]

This is how it looks like when I do the switch. I wouldn´t be able to play that much faster, but like this I am still able to create a rather strong pizz sound. Could have been played nicer, but still...
pizz arco german bow

 

[Ed S]

Good luck, man!

I use French, but find it a challenge. Also, as a longtime BG thumper, I find the weaker pizz while holding a bow kinda messes w/ my head.

 

[oldNewbie]

While we're at it, does anyone use a bow hanger on their stand ?
Arco Clip Hook - Bow Hook for Stand or Belt
I use a quiver.In the ~dim and distant past~ had a bad day once putting a bow on the stand . Now that I have a good bow , I'm even less enthused about putting that on the stand . In the amateur orchestras I've played , I'm the only quiver user. Yes it's me, no one else has a problem putting their bow on a stand, true?
Second thread hijack :
And how many people clip their bow under their E string when setting the bass down ? I think that's safer than leaving it in the quiver , but I don't generally bother.

 

[eerbrev]

While we're at it, does anyone use a bow hanger on their stand ?
Arco Clip Hook - Bow Hook for Stand or Belt
I use a quiver.In the ~dim and distant past~ had a bad day once putting a bow on the stand . Now that I have a good bow , I'm even less enthused about putting that on the stand . In the amateur orchestras I've played , I'm the only quiver user. Yes it's me, no one else has a problem putting their bow on a stand, true?
Second thread hijack :
And how many people clip their bow under their E string when setting the bass down ? I think that's safer than leaving it in the quiver , but I don't generally bother.

I have an extreme aversion to extra bibs and bobs. It's just one more thing for me to break or lose, frankly. So no quiver, no clip, no bow hanger. When I put my bass down I do put it under my B and E string.

 

[CaseyVancouver]

Ahem, may I introduce ‘the paper clip’.

The problem with putting the bow on the stand is people walking by knock it off.
I’ve even seen a bassoonist run for the coffee pot, and knock a prized viola off a chair to the floor.
Bit of a bowling ball going through the unattended instruments.

I use a quiver for my classical bass. Some feel it has an influence on the sound. I never put my bows under the string, used to and noticed after many years wear on the frog. I’ve seen some great bassists put their bow under the string. I’ve even seen an Eastern European bassist stuff his bow in the fhole during intermission. How rude.

Hanging it on the paper clip gets it out of path of bassoonists.

 

[Wasnex]

Ahem, may I introduce ‘the paper clip’.

The problem with putting the bow on the stand is people walking by knock it off.
I’ve even seen a bassoonist run for the coffee pot, and knock a prized viola off a chair to the floor.
Bit of a bowling ball going through the unattended instruments.

I use a quiver for my classical bass. Some feel it has an influence on the sound. I never put my bows under the string, used to and noticed after many years wear on the frog. I’ve seen some great bassists put their bow under the string. I’ve even seen an Eastern European bassist stuff his bow in the fhole during intermission. How rude.

Hanging it on the paper clip gets it out of path of bassoonists.

View attachment 4182368

Ingenious

 

[oldNewbie]

Ahem, may I introduce ‘the paper clip’.

The problem with putting the bow on the stand is people walking by knock it off.
I’ve even seen a bassoonist run for the coffee pot, and knock a prized viola off a chair to the floor.
Bit of a bowling ball going through the unattended instruments.

Hanging it on the paper clip gets it out of path of bassoonists.

Brilliant ! Always wondered what those really giant binder clips were good for.
Now whenever the next rehearsal comes, have to remember to put one on my folder....
Thanks !