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Double Bass Plastic upright bass

JBarz

On indefinite internet sabbatical
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Mar 6, 2015
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I am a fan of what high quality modern plastics can do acoustically.

I know Maccaferri made a plastic arch top guitar in the 50s, a bunch of folks have tried ukuleles that don’t hold up to tension over time, but plastics have come a long way since then!

There’s a company called outdoor ukuleles that combines glass and carbon fibers to produce a stable rigid polymer that sings acoustically. Really high quality instrument.

Has anyone ever attempted such a thing on bass, failed or otherwise?

I am conceptualizing a design that can be relatively easily shipped and sold as a kit and all-weather travel bass. Not unlike Upton’s new boutique travel bass, but at a significantly lower price point.
 
The only carbon fiber DB I played was several decades ago, it had a thin, nasal sound (pizz) and not a lot in the way of projection. But you could stand on the belly (the owner demonstrated) without it collapsing or pushing the sound post through the top…
 
I've never seen one in the wild

Yeah, I was about to post the Luis and Clark one. Apparently Yo Yo Ma has one of their carbon fibre cellos for outdoor gigs in weather unsuitable for one of his legit instruments.
Not at a lower price point, though - this is coming in at $12k for the bass. You'd want to have *a lot* of high paying freezing weather gigs to justify the cost.
 
My L&C cello sounds really nice, and it has been for a few years my go to gigging cello. But it took some work over time with my luthier, plus using my darker-sounding bow, to tame the high mids resonance and get a richer tone. Some people call the default sound “nasally” and I get why. It amplifies really well with a Copperhead but I rarely need it. It cuts through in a crowded room just fine only playing acoustic. I took it to my orchestra rehearsal a few weeks back, classical-only cello players are pretty skeptical about “cello-shaped objects,” but they were curious - and it sounded better than some of the wooden cellos and gained grudging respect. The conductor said it blended just fine with the section. I’ve read that only the cellos sell well, not the bass, violin or viola.
 
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There was a company out in Arizona that made carbon fiber violins, violas, cellos and basses back in the 1990s. Can't remember the name but they were aimed at classical players needing something nore rugged for situations like playing outdoors. At the time, they were about $5,000 as I recall.

I’ve read that only the cellos sell well, not the bass, violin or viola.

I'm sure Yo Yo Ma's endorsement helps sell L&C cellos.
 
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Thanks gang. That's what I needed to know.

I may try my hand at producing something much cheaper and much more aimed at being a super portable practice bass/full-sized acoustic capable EUB than necessarily try to compete with a fine wooden instrument. I'm thinking high action and Aquila plastic strings for the pizz jazz folks and bluegrass thumpers, not for arco or orchestral work in any capacity.

I'm not super familiar with the technology (yet?), but wouldn't it be something if there was a 3D printable upright bass kit?
 
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Thanks gang. That's what I needed to know.

I may try my hand at producing something much cheaper and much more aimed at being a super portable practice bass/full-sized acoustic capable EUB than necessarily try to compete with a fine wooden instrument. I'm thinking high action and Aquila plastic strings for the pizz jazz folks and bluegrass thumpers, not for arco or orchestral work in any capacity.

I'm not super familiar with the technology (yet?), but wouldn't it be something if there was a 3D printable upright bass kit?
I don't know about any 3d-printed double bass..:P parts are 3d-printed, but the whole bass I never heard about... perhaps this might be an alternative?!?! ;)
 
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I’m considering a neck-through design that doesn’t put tension on the top. That way the body of the bass could be made of a series of smaller interlocking pieces.

That Star Wars nerd in the video above is my new personal hero. I don’t know why he would paint that axe, though. That clear vistalite looking plastic body was beautiful!
 
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I just spent a week in the North Woods with a bunch of fiddlers. I'm seeing a growing number of carbon instruments. The super cheap ones sound muted. Other than that, in a fiddling context, they sound just fine. I didn't get to critically compare one with a conventional instrument. Some of these people travel with their fiddles in all weather, camping, whatever.

Now, a completely different technology, the early Roth fiberglass basses. My middle school had one. It sat for years in a non climate controlled room, and in the summer heat, basically melted -- the string tension pulled the neck forward, resulting in what you could easily just imagine.
 
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A symphony bassist asked me to check out a L&C bass and cello at a local music store back in 2001 or so, can't recall exactly the year. Ward Music, before it was subsumed by Long & McQuade. He wouldn't say more, just "You have to check this out" so I did. Played the cello first (I play cello, though I did play a tiny bit of doublebass once in high school band, more electric bass, and never any good at either), and found the sound quite acceptable. I was surprised. Seemed a little expensive for a plastic instrument, but then again one could probably use it defensively in a dark alley without it going out of tune, so understandable why someone would want such an instrument.

Then I went to the bass, with a shop bow. Once downbow and I knew; this thing was AWFUL! I actually started laughing with the upbow. Couldn't believe it had even made it out the factory door. I looked more closely at it, and soon saw two things very, very wrongly made. The f-holes had little bridges at top and bottom, eliminating any flexibility of that region, essentially curtailing participation of the upper and lower bouts in sound propagation. What the maker insane? And inside, the bassbar was about 1/2 the thickness it ought to be, and rectangular and very rough. Couldn't tell what it was made from, whether wood or CF, but either way it was proportionally nonsensical, at least gauging with my finger and what little I could see of it in the dim store lighting.

I have a small bass I'm restoring right now. Made in 1923 at the shop of Bienvenido Fleta (though not really - his nephews apparently inherited the shop and were just young guys starting out that year) of Barcelona. Italians working in Spain, I'm told by the owner. Like the L&C bass, it had little tags of whatever punky conifer was used in the 7-piece belly bridging the upper and lower f-holes. I've cut those through and carved them to continue the f-hole design, and reinforced above and below them with linen/hide glue patches, as the wood is rather flexible.

I understand from an engineering perspective, with such poor material, why they would have done this. But the bass has never sounded like a bass. That's also partially owing to the bassbar, which ran the entire length of the belly, rib to rib. It was generously proportioned throughout, and surprisingly, angled correctly, so I just trimmed it to the correct 7:9 proportion and then carved down the outer thirds at each end, testing and carving until it rang properly.

This thing will be a proper bass soon, for the first time in 100 years. Yesterday I removed neck shims and then corrected the warp in the neck, added a 2mm wall, 12mm diameter CF tube to stiffen it, and today I'll glue on a fingerboard. Then there's a shim to add to the heel to raise the overstand - it was at about 1/3" overstand even with two ancient shims having been added - and fit that soon to the new upper block. It's a lot of work, this bass, but it'll be gratifying to fulfill the new owner's promise to the former owner, his dying friend, that the bass will be made to play properly at last.
07-f-hole_ends_trimmed.jpg
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There was a company out in Arizona that made carbon fiber violins, violas, cellos and basses back in the 1990s. Can't remember the name but they were aimed at classical players needing something nore rugged for situations like playing outdoors. At the time, they were about $5,000 as I recall.



I'm sure Yo Yo Ma's endorsement helps sell L&C cellos.
Probably he helped, but in my experience by and large classical players initially are turned off. Crossover players like the Two Cellos took to them. The cellos just seem to sound better than the vln, vla, db models - if you work with setting them up. The cello was the first in the line and was designed by a cellist with a CF racing yacht friend of his. It’s a cool story.
 
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There was a company out in Arizona that made carbon fiber violins, violas, cellos and basses back in the 1990s. Can't remember the name but they were aimed at classical players needing something nore rugged for situations like playing outdoors. At the time, they were about $5,000 as I recall. [QOUTE]

Are you referring to Rainsong? And are the Scherl and Roth fiberglasses excluded from the discussion?
 
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A hybrid upright with HPL side and back and a solid wood top might be interesting. Maybe it’s been done. Maybe a full-on HPL upright? I have no idea if HPL technology could support an upright bass construction. If so the neck could be made of laminate wood and an ebanol or richlite fingerboard. Would be a pretty sustainable-made and an alternative to wood laminate uprights.

I just bought an open box Martin 12-string Special X guitar with HPL sides/back and a solid Spruce top, laminated birch neck, richlite fingerboard, and it sounds great.
 
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With the way carbon fiber bows have progressed, I could see carbon fiber basses being the next travel instruments. I have never been able to play one yet. A slightly thinner bass than the Shens Chadwick used with that folding design could get the weight way down - maybe to 30 or 40 pounds. They should be able to get them to out perform student level hybrid or ply basses.
I know the great German bassist Dieter Manderscheid. use to fly with one in its soft case and just checked it.
 
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