Playing bass along with a drum machine

[Ari Nobody]

As you know, a drum machine's timing is rigidly perfect for lack of a better term. If I play in sync with it all the time, it doesn't sound good to me. In fact I find it boring and repulsive musically.

So I have tended to move around the timing sort of speak, nudging the beat gently a little faster or slower, or even playing slightly behind the beat at varying degrees as I'm wont to do.

I'm curious to hear your opinion as to how this strikes you. Noticeable? Bothersome? Works?

Here's a song I'm constantly playing behind the beat and/or varying the "shuffle" in order to later end up on the beat eventually at some point (not necessarily of my own choosing):

 

[luciens]

Well it's not the accuracy of drum machines that make them boring to play along with, it's that they're just boring to play along with.... . Real drummers, good ones anyway, are just more fun to play along with because they're real live human drummers.

As for playing behind the beat, I have enough trouble just playing on the beat after 40 years of playing and I still suck just at doing that....

I've never been able to master playing behind the beat, but it's a real cool skill. John Paul Jones has said he uses it sometimes though I haven't heard it on any Led Zep tunes to my knowledge....

L

 

[Malcolm35]

Way back I bought a Beat Buddy that had 100 different beats. Gave it to our drummer and asked him to flag the ones he would use.

He said; "When I know what pattern I'm going to play I'll let you know." It all depends on the room, song and vocalist.

The Beat Buddy went back in my gig bag. The ole internal beat/feel that came over from rhythm guitar does it for me. Well, that and falling into sync with the drummer. My point; the drummer's beat is more important than a metronome. Why? Everyone on stage follows the drummer because he is our metronome.

We had a rhythm guitar that always had trouble with the lead vocalist not following the counted beat. Notice I said we had, he is no longer with us.

 

[byacey]

A good drummer and bassist communicate on a higher plane of existence, almost as if you're reading each other's mind. This is where the magic starts happening in spontaneous accents, timing effects, etc.
This is what makes playing interesting. A drum machine is too predictable.

 

[Ari Nobody]

A good drummer and bassist communicate on a higher plane of existence, almost as if you're reading each other's mind. This is where the magic starts happening in spontaneous accents, timing effects, etc.
This is what makes playing interesting. A drum machine is too predictable.

So right.
But what can you do when that's all you got? Not do anything at all?
But I know. Even the best song sounds like a bad door bell with a drum machine.

 

[Malcolm35]

If a metronome is all you have use it. It is a tool and like all tools we use them until they are no longer needed, or we find another tool, like a human drummer, that better fits our need.

 

[byacey]

One good thing about a drum machine is when practicing your timing relationship to the absolute time of the drum or metronome; For example, playing slightly ahead or behind the rhythm. Some drummers depending on their experience would be thrown upon hearing you do this, but the machine is relentless.

 

[Ari Nobody]

One good thing about a drum machine is when practicing your timing relationship to the absolute time of the drum or metronome; For example, playing slightly ahead or behind the rhythm. Some drummers depending on their experience would be thrown upon hearing you do this, but the machine is relentless.

Indeed. Good point.

 

[JakobMiller]

In 4/4 try keeping the kick dead on 1 and a bit ahead of the beat on 3. Push your crashes a bit ahead and hi hats a bit behind. Just play around with the timing of the individual elements. Makes it way less boring, but the tempo is consistent (but you could alter that, too). Kind of gives the illusion of real feel/groove. For me anyway.

 

[Ari Nobody]

In 4/4 try keeping the kick dead on 1 and a bit ahead of the beat on 3. Push your crashes a bit ahead and hi hats a bit behind. Just play around with the timing of the individual elements. Makes it way less boring, but the tempo is consistent (but you could alter that, too). Kind of gives the illusion of real feel/groove. For me anyway.

I understand what you're saying. Lots of tedious work though, my friend. I don't even know if my drum machine has enough sensitivity/adjustability (I believe its auto-correct works only down to 1/64th notes only?) to accomplish what you're saying without sounding like a broken robot.

It's just too bad I don't have any drummer buddies left at my age, and where I'm currently residing.

 

[JakobMiller]

I understand what you're saying. Lots of tedious work though, my friend. I don't even know if my drum machine has enough sensitivity/adjustability (I believe its auto-correct works only down to 1/64th notes only?) to accomplish what you're saying without sounding like a broken robot.

It's just too bad I don't have any drummer buddies left at my age, and where I'm currently residing.

It’s all good dude. You could try playing along with isolated drum tracks on YouTube. There are a bunch of programmed drum patterns at various tempos, so there ought to be some live ones.

 

[BassChuck]

Ultimately if you have control of your instrument, you'll be able to put the note anywhere you need to. Playing with a drum machine is great for putting the note in a predictable place. Playing with recordings is great for learning how to do it like the pro. Being in touch musically with your drummer is best.

 

[Guild B301]

It used to be that you could tell American drummers from British drummers, - ‘cause the Brits played behind the beat a little. Especially noticeable on the snare. It was a real ‘thing’. Another reason why real drummers are more fun. Drum machines can’t purposely gradually increase or slow the tempo, either. At least not any that I’ve ever used could do that.

 

[TheDirtyLowDown]

For what it's worth, here's a quote from TB that resonated for me, from @dreamadream99

dreamadream99 said: ↑
The only metronome I ever played to was a conductor, but I maintain that tempo, timing, and rhythmic accuracy is an ensemble skill, and everything I ever learned about them was from tapping my foot with a hundred other people. Timing is more about listening than insisting or exerting your will. Timing is a contract you enter into mutually with all the members of your ensemble; it lives and breathes, and micro-adjusts in such small increments it isn’t even perceptible.

And when it’s done right, it is never about leading—it’s about following.

I can play with a drum machine or a click track, because it always wins -- it's always the boss. For me, that's actually easier. What's more of a challenge for me is playing together with other musicians who are not infallible -- it's the microscopic back-and-forth adjustment, and the split-second awareness of tempo that you want to practice. Unfortunately, I don't know an automated way to work on that. What would really help would be something like a combination of liveBPM (a beat-tracking app that measures your BPM) combined with a drum machine. So it could tell you "You're pushing the beat here" or "You're dragging behind the beat" and display by how much. Then you could practice playing on or ahead or behind, reliably, and improve your sense of where you are relative to the beat.

 

[JRA]

If I play in sync with it all the time, it doesn't sound good to me. In fact I find it boring and repulsive musically.

IME: a good player can make a metronome/drum machine sound 'organic' enough. maybe you're all up in your head about it. i'd advise relaxing on your notion, if not your playdown. enjoy the groove...it's yours!

 

[JakobMiller]

IME: a good player can make a metronome/drum machine sound 'organic' enough. maybe you're all up in your head about it. i'd advise relaxing on your notion, if not your playdown. enjoy the groove...it's yours!

Yeah, what he said. The click is a
reference, not the truth/feel.
I know what you’re talking about playing with a drum machine (in the original post), but there’s so much you can do around those ‘set’ beats.
Also, that French song you put on there may be giving you problems because that bass part is ahead of the drums 75%of the time.

 

[Ari Nobody]

IME: a good player can make a metronome/drum machine sound 'organic' enough. maybe you're all up in your head about it. i'd advise relaxing on your notion, if not your playdown. enjoy the groove...it's yours!

Thanks Jacob, and to all the other members who posted their advice.

My friends,

Another problem I'm suffering from -- which started a few years ago as I got past my fifties -- is the involuntary restriction of my breathing while playing. It's being constrained by the beat of the song. I start inhaling and exhaling consciously on the beat and the backbeat only, instead of letting my lungs function independently of my control, as they would normally. This affects and ails both my playing and breathing, to the point that it becomes very difficult to play and enjoy music. I'm concentrating on the rhythm of my breathing instead of the beat of the song, which disrupts both my breathing and my playing.

Have any of you suffered from a similar condition? If yes, how did you overcome it, if you ever did?

 

[Malcolm35]

Thank goodness, no. Not going to be a lot of help. But you have identified the problem and that is the first step to finding a solution.

 

[byacey]

Thanks Jacob, and to all the other members who posted their advice.

My friends,

Another problem I'm suffering from -- which started a few years ago as I got past my fifties -- is the involuntary restriction of my breathing while playing. It's being constrained by the beat of the song. I start inhaling and exhaling consciously on the beat and the backbeat only, instead of letting my lungs function independently of my control, as they would normally. This affects and ails both my playing and breathing, to the point that it becomes very difficult to play and enjoy music. I'm concentrating on the rhythm of my breathing instead of the beat of the song, which disrupts both my breathing and my playing.

Have any of you suffered from a similar condition? If yes, how did you overcome it, if you ever did?

You have to be careful with this on slow tempos; you might turn blue and fall over!

 

[Ari Nobody]

You have to be careful with this on slow tempos; you might turn blue and fall over!

And when I get up, start playing the Blues as it should be, slow? (That was funny, thanks for the laughs )