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Playing with keyboardist in the band

Busker

Busker

Jan 22, 2007
1,645
22
#1
This is a first for me, playing with a keyboard player, and he's a good musician. I've been with this band for a little over a month and we're working hard on the songs, doing our best.

I'm not wanting to give up any important signature bass parts of course, but should I generally be playing fewer notes since we have a keyboardist? I should be discussing this with the band, I know, but wanted other bass players' opinions first.

At full stage volume can it turn to mud if we are stepping on each other?
 
#2
Our band fired our last keyboarist. He just didn't belong in a band. He always played bass parts with his left hand and noodled intensely under the guitarist's solos. We haven't had a keyboarist since. It's just really important that they know everybody is equal, and we all have our parts to play in the band. It comes down to listening to your bandmates, not stepping all over them.
 
#3
+1 to chroma.

In one of my cover bands our keyboard/rhythm guitar player and I often walk on eachother's toes... I approach it a few different ways.. If the song is a dominant keyboard song, let him have the spotlight a bit.. but most of the time I either have him turn his bass down a bit EQ wise or he just leaves his left hand out or plays on roots.. That's how we do it.
 
#4
lburton2 said:
+1 to chroma.
. If the song is a dominant keyboard song, let him have the spotlight a bit.. but most of the time I either have him turn his bass down a bit EQ wise or he just leaves his left hand out or plays on roots.. That's how we do it.
Click to expand...

+1 I'm playing in a piano driven band at the moment, and while he has plenty of room to noodle, he's never played with a [competent] bassist before, so I had to school him on simplifying his left hand, or moving it up an octave. Starting to pull together now.
 
#5
I have grown up playing with pianists/keyboardists (my mother is a classical pianist and we collaborate from time to time). I recently was asked by one of my good bassist friends to play bass in his band so that he can play the keys. I was first off flattered that he wants me to play his bass lines on his music in his band, and then i thought "uh oh this could get pretty muddy". Actually it is working very well for me and the group. I am opening up his left hand to do more stuff in higher registers and his second keyboard and since we are both bassists we cna quickly realize that things are getting mushy in the low end so we can easily figure out how to fix the issue.

when playing in stage bands and pit orchestras i always try to be as close to the piano as i can or have it the main thing in my monitor.

I have found that it is communication that can keep the "mud" from rising. If it comes up we figure out how we can get around it and keep the sonic spectrum happy
 
#6
We have keyboardist too and we had to clear it up that he has to lighten up his left hand playing or drop it completely or to move to higher register.
It is killing the song to have two different bass lines going on in the same tone range. It can work sometimes but mostly it is just conflicting, especially when he sings and his playing is getting out of pocket..
Sometimes on rehearsals I just stopped playing, saying, well, we have the bass line there, I don't have to to play.. :hmm:

Fortunately it worked out ultimately, and I had not to resort to the ultimate solution for his left hand:

ducttape.jpg
 
#7
Playing piano in a 'solo' environment vs. a band situation is different.
The good ones already know that.

Something just as bad is the guitarist that voices his chords so that the ROOT is always 'bassy' & loud.
 
#8
I've played with a few keyboard guys. The one I absolutely loved knew when not to play. If a song didn't call for keys, he'd sit back and sing background vocals. Every instrument has a place and knowing your place is as important, if not more so than being a virtuoso on your instrument.
 
#9
nemo said:
We have keyboardist too and we had to clear it up that he has to lighten up his left hand playing or drop it completely or to move to higher register.
Click to expand...

When the left hand is moved up an octave, sometimes they get into rhythm guitar territory.

I was a fake boardist for about 1 1/2 years in a 7 piece group with horns. Reducing my parts to mostly playing right handed chords/parts and voicing the organ properly did the trick. For the piano, reducing the bass in the e.q. helped out, too.

Listening to how your instrument fits in the mix and adjusting it is always a good thing.
 
#10
JimK said:
Playing piano in a 'solo' environment vs. a band situation is different.
The good ones already know that.

+1 The MD at my church is a ensamble player. He knows how to play with other instruments which I appreciate. The keyboardsist who plays with me on youth Sunday is always working the left hand stepping in my part. It does get annoying sometimes. But I don't play less notes.. I turn up a bit and he usually ends up easing off the left hand a bit.
Click to expand...
 
#11
Generally YOU're job is to play the bass part. The keyboard player needs to figure out that in fact he is now LIBERATED to add to the rest of the song, rather than keep it all going. This can be a hard lesson to get over, but a good player will realise he has a free hand.

Alternativly, after soundcheck move his keyboard 12" to the left and hope he doesn't notice...
 
#12
Busker said:
I'm not wanting to give up any important signature bass parts of course, but should I generally be playing fewer notes since we have a keyboardist? I should be discussing this with the band, I know, but wanted other bass players' opinions first.

At full stage volume can it turn to mud if we are stepping on each other?
Click to expand...

I absolutely LOVE keyboards! Wouldn't want to play without 'em. But you're right: It definitely requires good communication and good arrangement of parts between the bassist and the keyboard player's left hand...

There's no simple, easy answer to your question, because it depends very much on the type of music you play, and the manner in which you choose to arrange the parts. Try to think outside of the box - because a good keyboards player allows you to do that!

While the bassist will allow the keyboard player a certain amount of creative freedom from always having to define the bass parts, likewise the keyboardist will allow the bassist the freedom to explore some creative parts other than simple roots and quarter notes. The key to avoiding redundancy in the low end is to really listen to one another, keep free of ego enough to truly do what is right for the music, communicate openly and freely, and as I said - get creative and really think outside of the box... :hmm:

Enjoy! :bassist:

MM
 
#13
funkybassplayer said:
I have grown up playing with pianists/keyboardists (my mother is a classical pianist and we collaborate from time to time). I recently was asked by one of my good bassist friends to play bass in his band so that he can play the keys. I was first off flattered that he wants me to play his bass lines on his music in his band, and then i thought "uh oh this could get pretty muddy".
Click to expand...

A few years ago, I did a little project work with this keyboards player. Guy is classically trained, degree in music from Yale, excellent chops, can read almost anything you put in front of him, etc. etc. He loved my playing and encouraged me to really funk it up like Marcus.

But at the same time, he had some very conventional, very conservative notions of what constitutes an appropriate bass part. He would write parts for me and ask me to play them exactly as written - apparently not realizing that I was experienced and fluent enough to capture the essence of his ideas and actually improve upon them, i.e. simplify the excessive busyness by eliminating some of the superfluous notes; help the part to groove more by syncopating in certain places rather than playing it straight; occasionally changing the accents so as to lock better with the kick drum; stepping into the lead with an occasional tasteful melodic phrase; etc. etc.

It was often a tug of war, because the guy had a lot of preconceived ideas. But I held my ground and for the most part was able to have my contributions included, recognized and appreciated... :hmm:

MM
 
#14
With co-operation between keys and bass the sound can be really fantastic. But.... you do have to be in control of your sonic area, and that's the bass. If you and the keys have worked it out and are playing lines exactly together it can sound great. But if the keys are making up their own bassline and you are doing a different line.... it can be a real mess.

Stand up for what you need and keep your area clean.
 
#15
A piano player should never play below the Eb below middle C unless he has an extremely good reason for doing so.

I learned this when I was 16 (probably before a lot of you were born).

If you're playing with a bass player and a guitar player, it's best to swith to an organ sound and play open voiced chords. If you're using the piano sounds, the piano and the guitar must take turns doing the fills.

If you have to play a lead synthesizer line, the guitar player has to mute.
 
#17
It's a real hit or miss situation.

I LOVE keyboards and playing with a good player is GREAT. Playing with an incompetent one is a real challenge.

I find it frees me up and I can lay out a little more with keys. I dig that.
 

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