possibly dumb split-snake question

[ThinCrappyTone2]

A band I am in is starting to go ampless, with in-ear monitors.

It’s working great at rehearsal, but I understand that unless we are also running FOH, we’ll need a split-snake to to do this live.

So here is my possibly dumb question…

Do bands that do this generally bring their own drum and vocal mics and plug them into the split snake, where they feed the FOH and the monitor system? Or do bands use all the house’s drum and vocal mics, run them into the split snake to feed both systems? Or something else?

Thanks!

 

[SoCal80s]

You can do it either way, but if you bring your own mics you will have a more consistent IEM mix with little tweaking needed. If you are using different mics each time, you'll need to adjust the gain for each mic on your IEM mixer and probably the EQ too. But if you stick your own mics each time then it's just plug and play.

This assumes you can afford decent mics. If you're going with $20 specials, then you might be better off with the house mics. You'll also want to talk to the FOH engineer to make sure all works for him too. As long as you have decent mics he should be OK with it too.

 

[Hoochie Coochie Man]

It can work either way. Any good sound guy should have a splitter snake on hand. When we do sound for bands who bring their own mics, it is a little less work when packing up for us. Also, if a band mics their own drum set, it saves me the time when setting up as well, (if they will attach the mics to the kit for us). One objection I may have is if the mics are inferior, or unsuitable for the purpose, or if there are issues with their wireless mics, then I would rather work with equipment that I know works, and works well. Whatever you do, be sure to communicate with the sound guy so everyone knows ahead of time what to expect. And, if the sound guy is competent, and wants to use his own mics for some reason, it may be best to just go with the flow.

Edit to add, In our experience, we get the best FOH results with bands who go ampless with IEMs. If you mix your own monitors as well, it is just one less thing we have to do, but if you need the sound guy to run it, don't be afraid to tell him what you need to get it right. If, as the show progresses you need a change, don't be afraid to say something.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

You can do it either way, but if you bring your own mics you will have a more consistent IEM mix with little tweaking needed. If you are using different mics each time, you'll need to adjust the gain for each mic on your IEM mixer and probably the EQ too. But if you stick your own mics each time then it's just plug and play.

This assumes you can afford decent mics. If you're going with $20 specials, then you might be better off with the house mics. You'll also want to talk to the FOH engineer to make sure all works for him too. As long as you have decent mics he should be OK with it too.

Thank you for this info, @SoCal80s ! Good advice. We have decent mics, so bringing our own might be the ticket.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

It can work either way. Any good sound guy should have a splitter snake on hand. When we do sound for bands who bring their own mics, it is a little less work when packing up for us. Also, if a band mics, their own drum set, it saves me the time when setting up as well, (if they will attach the mics to the kit for us). One objection I may have is if the mics are inferior, or unsuitable for the purpose, or if there are issues with their wireless mics, then I would rather work with equipment that I know works, and works well. Whatever you do, be sure to communicate with the sound guy so everyone knows ahead of time what to expect. And, if the sound guy is competent, and wants to use his own mics for some reason, it may be best to just go with the flow.

Edit to add, In our experience, we get the best FOH results with bands who go ampless with IEMs. If you mix your own monitors as well, it is just one less thing we have to do, but if you need the sound guy to run it, don't be afraid to tell him what you need to get it right. If, as the show progresses you need a change, don't be afraid to say something.

Thanks for the response, @Hoochie Coochie Man ! Just the info I was looking for. Good to hear from a soundman’s perspective!

 

[andruca]

The 2 bands that went ampless around me (metal, one of them I play with) go their own desk and rack mount desk onstage linked via RJ45. Both happen to use Behringer X32 rack+desk. But there's many more such setups (if I were to choose a similar budget option I'd go Zoom instead of Behringer, but that's just me). With the addition of a wireless router for the onstage unit everyone makes their own monitor mix on their own from their phone.

I've done the Y split route and was OK, but you're doubling possible failure points and it's all around more complicated to setup.

 

[BassGuyFL]

It can get a bit expensive and complicated but it’s well worth it. It helps keep your setup and sound consistent and makes the soundguy’s job easier without having to deal with wedges. As was stated above definitely invest in some decent mic and gear. The mixer can be up to your choice but make sure it can handle multiple monitor outs and be accessed from a tablet or smartphone.

 

[Wasnex]

Thank you for this info, @SoCal80s ! Good advice. We have decent mics, so bringing our own might be the ticket.

IMHO, I highly suggest you contact the audio tech well before gig day. This is not the sort of thing you want to drop on them as a surprise. It should be worked out in advance.

While I agree that using your own mics will make it easier for you, it makes it more difficult for the audio tech. For example if they are using the same mic on multiple bands, the board will be set up for tech's mics and be in the ballpark for each band.

If the tech must use your mics, it can require a lot more changes. This is not necessarily all that difficult, but it takes time and the audio tech will not appreciate being surprised by this request at the gig site.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

The 2 bands that went ampless around me (metal, one of them I play with) go their own desk and rack mount desk onstage linked via RJ45. Both happen to use Behringer X32 rack+desk. But there's many more such setups (if I were to choose a similar budget option I'd go Zoom instead of Behringer, but that's just me). With the addition of a wireless router for the onstage unit everyone makes their own monitor mix on their own from their phone.

I've done the Y split route and was OK, but you're doubling possible failure points and it's all around more complicated to setup.

Thank you for the info and advice!

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

It can get a bit expensive and complicated but it’s well worth it. It helps keep your setup and sound consistent and makes the soundguy’s job easier without having to deal with wedges. As was stated above definitely invest in some decent mic and gear. The mixer can be up to your choice but make sure it can handle multiple monitor outs and be accessed from a tablet or smartphone.

Thank you Mr. Crani… I mean @BassGuyFL !

 

[themickster]

A band I am in is starting to go ampless, with in-ear monitors.

It’s working great at rehearsal, but I understand that unless we are also running FOH, we’ll need a split-snake to to do this live.

So here is my possibly dumb question…

Do bands that do this generally bring their own drum and vocal mics and plug them into the split snake, where they feed the FOH and the monitor system? Or do bands use all the house’s drum and vocal mics, run them into the split snake to feed both systems? Or something else?

Thanks!

Nothing dumb about asking

 

[sawzalot]

I have a passive 16 channel splitter made out of two ART S8 splitters that I bought used and two 16 channel XLR patch snakes. I have it all loaded in one rack with out X32 Rack mixer and it works great.

 

[skyline_01]

I have a passive 16 channel splitter made out of two ART S8 splitters that I bought used and two 16 channel XLR patch snakes. I have it all loaded in one rack with out X32 Rack mixer and it works great.

This is a similar setup to what we use in one of my bands. We run everything into the X32, it feeds the house via splitters and feeds our wireless IEM packs and we adjust our mixes individually to taste with tablet/phone.

Beautiful results, and saves a LOT of headache for us and the FOH personnel. What a time to play live music!

 

[6Bass101]

The way we do it is bring our own mic for kick and overhead (positioned on the snare side). These two mics give us enough drum sound in the IEMs. We let FOH mic the kit however they like, using their own mics. It’s worked out great so far.

 

[Mike Caldwell]

The way we do it is bring our own mic for kick and overhead (positioned on the snare side). These two mics give us enough drum sound in the IEMs. We let FOH mic the kit however they like, using their own mics. It’s worked out great so far.

That's a workable alternative.
Do you have a split for all the other channels?

A general comment I have made before.....
Bringing your own IEM system has many advantages..just make sure you know how to full use it and more importantly know how to troubleshoot it at all levels. Don't rely on the sound person to help fix it at every show. Sometimes I / they can help, other times we can be too busy.

 

[6Bass101]

Yes, we have a split for everyone. Here’s the basic setup:
Mic split box for lead and backing vocals, attached to each singer’s pedal board. Takes the input from the FOH mic and sends the through signal to the house and the isolated split to our IEM mixer (the isolated out avoids accidental double phantom power issues).
Bass and guitar go into their own Line 6 HX device, then to a DI, the DI XLR goes to FOH and the 1/4 out goes to our IEM mixer.
Drums set up as I mentioned above.

The entire IEM mix is independent of FOH. We rehearse with this very same setup (minus any signal to FOH). What we hear in our ears at rehearsal is exactly the same thing we hear at a gig. And more importantly, we are not dependent on FOH for our monitor mix at all. We let them know we have the monitors taken care of, and they just need to worry about the house sound. They always love it. Last guy said we were “real pros” and made his job easy. No surprise we were rebooked that same night before we left.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

The way we do it is bring our own mic for kick and overhead (positioned on the snare side). These two mics give us enough drum sound in the IEMs. We let FOH mic the kit however they like, using their own mics. It’s worked out great so far.

that’s a great idea!

 

[6Bass101]

that’s a great idea!

We end up with two mics on the kick and an extra overhead, but since our mics only go to our IEM mixer, they don’t mess the the FOH setup.
It’s also super quick to set up on our end since it’s only two mics.

 

[ThinCrappyTone2]

We end up with two mics on the kick and an extra overhead, but since our mics only go to our IEM mixer, they don’t mess the the FOH setup.
It’s also super quick to set up on our end since it’s only two mics.

This approach solves a lot of the concerns I had. Thanks for the info!

 

[tshapiro]

My band uses an 8 channel splitter box, we use our own mics and just have the FOH send us 8 XLRs. We run the IEM - they run FOH. We run 2 overheads for the drums that are just for the drummers IEM. Front of house mics the drums separately - so yes they are mic’d twice. Full transparency, it’s a rats nest of chords but it works really well. The pick below shows our splitter on the ground awaiting the sound guy to us his XLR’s