Preamp: Deep, clear lows wanted

[el murdoque]

I'm curious if there is a preamp pedal that can provide super dry, clear and articulated lows for a dubby, modern reggae sound with a bass that has a low B. I'm currently using a Sansamp, where Im generally a very happy user, But I feel like there could be some more depth to the modern Reggae sound, which I seem unable to dial in.


Must have would be 2 sound settings, FX loop and DI out,
HPF would be nice to have, as well as some sort of cab sim.

 

[liveburning274]

The newer Mesa Subway DI will check ALOT of these boxes for you and get you really deep, sub-type sounds without too much built in distortion.

 

[Lobster11]

I'm curious if there is a preamp pedal that can provide super dry, clear and articulated lows for a dubby, modern reggae sound with a bass that has a low B. I'm currently using a Sansamp, where Im generally a very happy user, But I feel like there could be some more depth to the modern Reggae sound, which I seem unable to dial in.


Must have would be 2 sound settings, FX loop and DI out,
HPF would be nice to have, as well as some sort of cab sim.

An HPF alone might do the trick. That would allow you to boost the lows on your amp or Sansamp without creating mud.

 

[el murdoque]

An HPF alone might do the trick. That would allow you to boost the lows on your amp or Sansamp without creating mud.

Do you mean highpassing the signal before it hits the Sansamp?
AFAIK my models (Sanamp PBDDI and Bass Driver Deluxe) do have a baked in HPF with the speaker emulation - so when I boost the lows too much, I get a warm sound that's a bit fuzzy around the edges.

 

[el murdoque]

The newer Mesa Subway DI will check ALOT of these boxes for you and get you really deep, sub-type sounds without too much built in distortion.

The Subway DI Plus looks promising, it has the filters and it has the FX loop.
It is close to impossible to get one of these in Germany, though.
None on Reverb, either.

 

[sawzalot]

I have the Subway Plus DI, it's great for this sort of thing. Definitely worth waiting for on Reverb if you can't get one new locally.

 

[Deleted member 165050]

I hadn't realised the Subway DI was so difficult to get but I can't find any in stock in Europe, and a US listing on eBay is quoting June 2022 for delivery date!

[Edit] found one in the UK at Coda Music, also listed on Reverb.

 

[BurningSkies]

Traditionally reggae bass doesn't go lower frequency wise than what amps/preamps are already available...it's more about boosting the levels of those frequencies that range from about 60-150hz or so. I've been HPFing my live and studio signal at about 35hz for a long long time and bringing up the stuff above that to create a 'hump' in that area that drops off quickly.

 

[Bill Murray]

This is kind of tricky. In my experience you may want to invest in either a new cab or bass/preamp and you’re better off spending time on technique than hoping a DI will get you there.

If DI is your desired route though, the MESA Subway is the one I’d go with.

I spent a TON of time working on the sound you’re describing though and I dont use any pedals or DIs, etc.

There are definitely multiple ways to get a good reggae sound but here’s what got me the FAT tone I was looking for.

1) Technique. Sadly this is something that won’t happen overnight. I’ve been doing reggae full time for two years now and just two months ago got my technique right where it needed to be. It does change depending on the song/tone. In general though, for dub, I play softly at the very edge of the fingerboard or pluck using my thumb just over the fingerboard.

2) a minimum of 800 watts in a cab (outside of Markbass, 500 watts in this case, but the more the better). Low end eats up lots of power and requires more watts than any other frequency to be produced. Don’t underestimate the importance of this!

3) A bass with an active 18V preamp. I started with a passive bass, was blown away but how much more low-end I could get with an active bass, and when I went from 9V to 18V.. that’s when I found the all consuming sub-low boom I was looking for.

4) EQ. I run everything on my head at noon. The bass has everything turned all the way down, except the bass which is all the way up. This will sound like garbage if you’re technique is not super smooth, you need to play with a light touch, or if your cab doesn’t have enough headroom it will just fart out.

Sadly all I have to share are mediocre phone recordings at the moment. Hitting the studio this weekend to get some originals done though!

Per usual, use headphones or good speakers.

 

[el murdoque]

This is kind of tricky. In my experience you may want to invest in either a new cab or bass/preamp and you’re better off spending time on technique than hoping a DI will get you there.

If DI is your desired route though, the MESA Subway is the one I’d go with.

I spent a TON of time working on the sound you’re describing though and I dont use any pedals or DIs, etc.

Thanks for your post, but I'm no beginner to that topic. I do have the rig that can get me that sound, and I trained the techiques for about a decade now. We're playing ampless, though. My Sansamp is like 98% there, but the lows I boost there are a bit too warm and soft.

Traditionally reggae bass doesn't go lower frequency wise than what amps/preamps are already available...it's more about boosting the levels of those frequencies that range from about 60-150hz or so. I've been HPFing my live and studio signal at about 35hz for a long long time and bringing up the stuff above that to create a 'hump' in that area that drops off quickly.

On my digital rig, I have my HPF at 65Hz and AFAIK the Sansamp units do the Highpass around 50.

It's not that I'm not happy with my sound, there are just some parts we play where I'd like an ultra clean sound with heaps of headroom and massive lows and I feel that Sansamp is the wrong choice for that.

 

[Bill Murray]

Thanks for your post, but I'm no beginner to that topic. I do have the rig that can get me that sound, and I trained the techiques for about a decade now. We're playing ampless, though. My Sansamp is like 98% there, but the lows I boost there are a bit too warm and soft.



On my digital rig, I have my HPF at 65Hz and AFAIK the Sansamp units do the Highpass around 50.

It's not that I'm not happy with my sound, there are just some parts we play where I'd like an ultra clean sound with heaps of headroom and massive lows and I feel that Sansamp is the wrong choice for that.

that makes sense. I’ve always kind of considered the Sansamp to be more of a rock/pop/country thing. If you can find a Mesa that should give you that little bit of difference you are describing. Outside of that (if you have the funds) Fractal Audio FM3. All the options, and then some, without the bulk of the Axe Effects unit. Multiple musicians in my circle have gone amp-less. I use an HX Stomp when I’m not using my amp, haven’t gotten the reggae tone dialed in on it yet, but the FM3 can do it, and very well. I’ve had no exposure to Kemper but have heard nothing but good things.

DI is obviously easier and more direct though haha

 

[BurningSkies]

Thanks for your post, but I'm no beginner to that topic. I do have the rig that can get me that sound, and I trained the techiques for about a decade now. We're playing ampless, though. My Sansamp is like 98% there, but the lows I boost there are a bit too warm and soft.



On my digital rig, I have my HPF at 65Hz and AFAIK the Sansamp units do the Highpass around 50.

It's not that I'm not happy with my sound, there are just some parts we play where I'd like an ultra clean sound with heaps of headroom and massive lows and I feel that Sansamp is the wrong choice for that.

The Sansamp is sort of known for being able to cop the kind of breakup that once came from tube style amps and that lack of perceived cleanness is actually designed into the circuit. Plenty of totally clean preamps out there and look for something that either high passes lower (closer to what a FOH guy would do would be in the 30-40hz range) or something without a HPF and get a separate unit. On the clean headroom side, I use tube preamps that aren't designed to break up...but with a HUGE solid state (class D power amp) that's 2500w RMS and with speakers that have a very long x-max (so they don't break up easily)

 

[Lobster11]

It's not that I'm not happy with my sound, there are just some parts we play where I'd like an ultra clean sound with heaps of headroom and massive lows and I feel that Sansamp is the wrong choice for that.

It seems to me that the first step in getting an "ultra clean sound" is going to be to turn off the Sansamp, since that it is exactly what it is designed not to do. The second step might be, as I suggested earlier, to use a separate HPF to clean up that bottom end when you boost it.

 

[HolmeBass]

Whenever I get to play a gig that’s just reggae, I use the amp’s EQ over the basses. In my normal gigging situation only some tunes are reggae, and I use the EQ on my bass.

I would definitely keep the HPF set no higher than 40 Hz. You mentioned 65 and in my opinion that is too high for dub tones.

As for pre-amps, if the Mesa DI has the Deep switch like on my D-800+ that would be a great option. Also you should consider your in-ears and go 4 or more drivers. I will say the D-800+ is not perfectly clean, but cleaner than the SansAmp.

My perfect “slightly almost imperceptibly crunchy when I dig in” tool is the Cali 76 CB compressor. It has a side-chain HPF that will let all of those glorious lows through, but provide a bit of grunt if you dig in a little bit.

For really completely clean I have found the Quilter BB-800 to fit the bill, and I think Quilter has a pre-amp, which might be worth looking in to.

 

[el murdoque]

that makes sense. I’ve always kind of considered the Sansamp to be more of a rock/pop/country thing. If you can find a Mesa that should give you that little bit of difference you are describing. Outside of that (if you have the funds) Fractal Audio FM3. All the options, and then some, without the bulk of the Axe Effects unit. Multiple musicians in my circle have gone amp-less. I use an HX Stomp when I’m not using my amp, haven’t gotten the reggae tone dialed in on it yet, but the FM3 can do it, and very well. I’ve had no exposure to Kemper but have heard nothing but good things.

DI is obviously easier and more direct though haha

The Sansamp is sort of known for being able to cop the kind of breakup that once came from tube style amps and that lack of perceived cleanness is actually designed into the circuit. Plenty of totally clean preamps out there and look for something that either high passes lower (closer to what a FOH guy would do would be in the 30-40hz range) or something without a HPF and get a separate unit. On the clean headroom side, I use tube preamps that aren't designed to break up...but with a HUGE solid state (class D power amp) that's 2500w RMS and with speakers that have a very long x-max (so they don't break up easily)

It seems to me that the first step in getting an "ultra clean sound" is going to be to turn off the Sansamp, since that it is exactly what it is designed not to do. The second step might be, as I suggested earlier, to use a separate HPF to clean up that bottom end when you boost it.

Thank you all for reaching the conclusion that started this thread ;-)
The Sansamp is an awesome machine, but not made for what I want to do here.
The Mesa Boogie Preamp DI plus is made out of unobtainium.

What else is there worth looking at? Keep in mind, I would like to have an FX loop.

 

[BurningSkies]

Thank you all for reaching the conclusion that started this thread ;-)
The Sansamp is an awesome machine, but not made for what I want to do here.
The Mesa Boogie Preamp DI plus is made out of unobtainium.

What else is there worth looking at? Keep in mind, I would like to have an FX loop.

Alas, pedal preamps with bells and whistles are not my bailiwick (I've always wanted to use that term). I stick with rack-mount tube stuff. If I were looking pedals I'd be using either a Jule Amps Simone or a Noble unit. But neither have effects loops.

 

[ThudThudThud]

Thank you all for reaching the conclusion that started this thread ;-)
The Sansamp is an awesome machine, but not made for what I want to do here.
The Mesa Boogie Preamp DI plus is made out of unobtainium.

What else is there worth looking at? Keep in mind, I would like to have an FX loop.

I'd been using SansAmp BDDI and PBDDI for years. When I got an RPM rackmount I was surprised how very differently it acted compared to the pedals. I don't play reggae, but I definitely found some deep stuff in that rack unit.

 

[4Mal]

Personally - I can't stand the Sansamp.

How about an HX Stomp ? Global EQ with HPF/LPF plus 3 bands. Preamp modelling and IR support. Unless you really want them, just skip the effects. Stick what you really like in the 2 EFX Loops. Some of the on board efx are actually OK. The modulation and time based stuff ... I particularly like the ability to introduce a cross over in my efx chain. In my case I'm headed opposite of you, I want a slightly pushed tubey sounding low end and very clear highs. I start with an EQ then a mild comp. I insert a cross over split at 160 hz. Everything below that goes through a mild OD and bass boost. Everything above 160 goes through modulation. I can footswitch the OD and modulation and EFX loop on/off from the Stomp (mine is an XL).

I run a Future Impact in one EFX loop and use the sub octave, envelopes and pure synth stuff from it there. The FI is soon to be controlled my an external midi controller as far as patch selection goes. On / Off will still be from the Stomp XL.

You obviously would not want the OD on your lows but you could have additional EQ or maybe a gain stage...

The split paths come together at the end of the chain prior to outputs by default.

My amp is a Mesa D-800+ I previously had the D-800 and before that the Subway DI. The @agedhorse designed DI in the Subway series is the best bass DI I have found yet. For me it made an Avalon U5 obsolete... and I have been a U5 fan for years. So my DI is from the amp Pre EQ.

 

[Aidenn7]

you need two amps in parallel.. a solid state and tube.. one clean hifi one tube sounding.. a gaillen kruger and ampeg.. so you can control each part independently..

 

[JeezyMcNuggles]

I'm curious if there is a preamp pedal that can provide super dry, clear and articulated lows for a dubby, modern reggae sound with a bass that has a low B. I'm currently using a Sansamp, where Im generally a very happy user, But I feel like there could be some more depth to the modern Reggae sound, which I seem unable to dial in.


Must have would be 2 sound settings, FX loop and DI out,
HPF would be nice to have, as well as some sort of cab sim.

You want an octaver bro. "sub n up" works cherry. Just on a little bit. Don't crank the bottom octave. You won't have speakers anymore.