Preamp for multiple bassists

[two fingers]

Off topic but you guys must have a huge church. Back when I went to church, I was going there for years and they didn't have a bassist until I started playing bass. It was a moderate size church. Under 100 people. On second thought, maybe my idea of a moderate size church is way off :/

Nah. A few hundred. But the music is modern and the congregation on the younger side. So it is easy to find volunteers when we are doing something that speaks to them musically to begin with. To them, it's no different from playing rock music. They love it.

 

[tedsalt]

He is not trying to make us all sound identical. But it does take too long to get a handle on the bass sound when we come from four completely different tonal directions. So similarity is the goal. Not total equality.

With the Noble you are at the other end of the scale. It's so simple that any bassist can dial up in seconds

My church has had Bass Pods and Sansamps, and personally I like simple.

Just sayin' ...

 

[two fingers]

If you use a digital board, why don't you store presets for each bass player and just recall when needed?

Or assign different channels on the main board for each player. Inputs being available that is.

Both solid points. And, to be honest, this is one board I haven't spent any time behind. I'll have to ask if either of these is a possibility. Thanks.

 

[two fingers]

Again, thanks much to every single person who has chimed in so far. Lots to think about and even some angles I hadn't considered at all.

Then again, that's why I brought it to you guys to begin with.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Mind out with the older style Sansamp pedals. Noon is a big gnarly 800hz scoop and it gets worse when you boost bass and treble.

The newest one has shiftable mids but I don't know if there is a 3 prog version of that as yet.

 

[Downunderwonder]

He is not trying to make us all sound identical. But it does take too long to get a handle on the bass sound when we come from four completely different tonal directions. So similarity is the goal. Not total equality.

not buying it. Meantime save some scenes on the digital desk.

 

[two fingers]

not buying it. Meantime save some scenes on the digital desk.

Well you'll just have to believe me. In fact I just spoke with him about it. He's not mad. He's not trying to make us all identical. But all of us sound completely different which takes a ton of time to dial into a mix. Having run sound I get it. Try running sound for half a dozen acts on one stage. It's a tough! Especially with everybody and their grandmother stomping on a dozen boxes each all night. It'll make you pull you hair out.

He just wants a closers point to start from each week. He even just told me if we can't hammer out a solution it's not a deal breaker. He was literally asking a favor of all of us to attempt to come up with some sort of game plan that makes dialing us all in easier. Never mind that two players' rigs are not altogether reliable. Their rigs snap crackle and pop like Rice Crispies. It would be nice to not have to deal with that either.

Short version. He's trying to make his job easier while not pissing off four of his friends. I'm trying to offer up a solution that won't butt hurt the other three. I frankly don't care from my standpoint. If it makes him smile I can work with whatever

Fair enough?

 

[Jack Butler]

I can certainly understand the goal, and buying a cool preamp on someone else's dime is cool, but I'm not sure the consistency goal will be achieved. Between different basses, playing styles, and settings on aforementioned new preamp, I feel like he'd be right back where he started. Our worship leader tried to help things out by asking us all to use the house amp he had there, AND please don't touch any knobs. Of course that didn't work at all. Bassist A- schecter active 5 string, pick, punk band is his other gig.
Bassist B- Zon active 4 string, fingers, 100% jazz guy
Bassist C(me)- 4 sting precision, duck Dunn wanna be style.
After a month or so, the house amp died and he said just bring your own rig, that consistency experiment didn't work at all anyway.

 

[two fingers]

I can certainly understand the goal, and buying a cool preamp on someone else's dime is cool, but I'm not sure the consistency goal will be achieved. Between different basses, playing styles, and settings on aforementioned new preamp, I feel like he'd be right back where he started. Our worship leader tried to help things out by asking us all to use the house amp he had there, AND please don't touch any knobs. Of course that didn't work at all. Bassist A- schecter active 5 string, pick, punk band is his other gig.
Bassist B- Zon active 4 string, fingers, 100% jazz guy
Bassist C(me)- 4 sting precision, duck Dunn wanna be style

Being that you live through it too, let me ask you.....

What about the possibility of dialing in 4 separate tones on something like a VT Deluxe?

For instance in your case....

Bassist A - Set a preset with the highs dialed back a bit.

Bassist B - set a preset for whatever it takes to sit him in the mix

You - Set a preset fot your thing. Crank some mids and highs so the sound guy has something other than dead flats dull to work with. (I personally love that tone for some music but Praise and Worship? Do you guys play mainly classic or hymns?)

Also, part.of the problem with our guys is the same as yours. Why does the pink guy have to play all punky in a church band? Why does the jazz guy have to get his jazz on in church? Why do you have to Duck Dunn in church? Why can't you all just send something to the board HE can work with? Why do you HAVE to do "your sound" in church?

I promise I am not trying to argue. I am literally asking. I do a lot of fill in secular gigs. And I play all kinds of P&W. I have always tried to produce WHATEVER tone the GIG called for. There's no such thing as "my tone". So I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how someone can "refuse" to adjust for the sake of the sound needed to pull of the music in question. Why can't the punk guy play punk I'm his garage but tone it down at church?

I don't know. It seems like this issue comes up a lot. But it wouldn't if everyone remembered why they were there.

I hope I didn't offend you. If I did I apologize.

 

[tedsalt]

Our services are centered around a message that speaks to current issues, and is framed by worship and a feature song or two that go along with or support the issue. We typically try to play it like the current version that the congregation would hear on the radio. Sometimes there are multiple versions and the music director will direct towards one of the versions. But we aren't playing for us, or for our style. We're playing to the message, to help make the message relevant to current issues.

So we never know what music we're going to be playing, with the exception of current worship music. Sometimes that gets pushed too.

 

[Jack Butler]

Being that you live through it too, let me ask you.....

What about the possibility of dialing in 4 separate tones on something like a VT Deluxe?

For instance in your case....

Bassist A - Set a preset with the highs dialed back a bit.

Bassist B - set a preset for whatever it takes to sit him in the mix

You - Set a preset fot your thing. Crank some mids and highs so the sound guy has something other than dead flats dull to work with. (I personally love that tone for some music but Praise and Worship? Do you guys play mainly classic or hymns?)

Ya know, that would actually make a lot more sense than my B/L's idea of "don't mess with the settings on the house amp". That might be the best attempt at consistency.

Also, part.of the problem with our guys is the same as yours. Why does the pink guy have to play all punky in a church band? Why does the jazz guy have to get his jazz on in church? Why do you have to Duck Dunn in church? Why can't you all just send something to the board HE can work with? Why do you HAVE to do "your sound" in church?

I feel like I'm the only one of us that really took that message home from the B/L, who preached it often. I like Duck, and strangely, Steve Harris equally. and some Tommy Shannon. Meaning if there is ANY opportunity to do a shuffle, or a gallop, I'm on it. I fit this in wherever possible. He convinced me to take a less "me approach" and in this music, mostly play straight 8th notes.

I promise I am not trying to argue. I am literally asking. I do a lot of fill in secular gigs. And I play all kinds of P&W. I have always tried to produce WHATEVER tone the GIG called for. There's no such thing as "my tone". So I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how someone can "refuse" to adjust for the sake of the sound needed to pull of the music in question. Why can't the punk guy play punk I'm his garage but tone it down at church?
I don't know. It seems like this issue comes up a lot. But it wouldn't if everyone remembered why they were there.

I hope I didn't offend you. If I did I apologize.

No offense taken, great discussion. Tone is tougher for me. You want straight 8ths, you got it. Harder for me if you insist on a tone that is not phat!! Of course we are there to serve, but I also feel like I'd like to be a bit creative sometimes. If I were a paid professional I'd play what the person paying me wanted with as thin a tone as they want.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Well you'll just have to believe me. In fact I just spoke with him about it. He's not mad. He's not trying to make us all identical. But all of us sound completely different which takes a ton of time to dial into a mix. Having run sound I get it. Try running sound for half a dozen acts on one stage. It's a tough! Especially with everybody and their grandmother stomping on a dozen boxes each all night. It'll make you pull you hair out.

He just wants a closers point to start from each week. He even just told me if we can't hammer out a solution it's not a deal breaker. He was literally asking a favor of all of us to attempt to come up with some sort of game plan that makes dialing us all in easier. Never mind that two players' rigs are not altogether reliable. Their rigs snap crackle and pop like Rice Crispies. It would be nice to not have to deal with that either.

Short version. He's trying to make his job easier while not pissing off four of his friends. I'm trying to offer up a solution that won't butt hurt the other three. I frankly don't care from my standpoint. If it makes him smile I can work with whatever

Fair enough?

ok then. A case of a lot more info. Maybe a case for the Reddi and get everyone and his dog to level their goddam outputs.

 

[tedsalt]

The Reddi probably would be a good heavy duty long lasting preamp/DI. Or a Broughton P15

 

[Downunderwonder]

Being that you live through it too, let me ask you.....

What about the possibility of dialing in 4 separate tones on something like a VT Deluxe?

For instance in your case....

Bassist A - Set a preset with the highs dialed back a bit.

Bassist B - set a preset for whatever it takes to sit him in the mix

You - Set a preset fot your thing. Crank some mids and highs so the sound guy has something other than dead flats dull to work with. (I personally love that tone for some music but Praise and Worship? Do you guys play mainly classic or hymns?)

Also, part.of the problem with our guys is the same as yours. Why does the pink guy have to play all punky in a church band? Why does the jazz guy have to get his jazz on in church? Why do you have to Duck Dunn in church? Why can't you all just send something to the board HE can work with? Why do you HAVE to do "your sound" in church?

I promise I am not trying to argue. I am literally asking. I do a lot of fill in secular gigs. And I play all kinds of P&W. I have always tried to produce WHATEVER tone the GIG called for. There's no such thing as "my tone". So I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how someone can "refuse" to adjust for the sake of the sound needed to pull of the music in question. Why can't the punk guy play punk I'm his garage but tone it down at church?

I don't know. It seems like this issue comes up a lot. But it wouldn't if everyone remembered why they were there.

I hope I didn't offend you. If I did I apologize.

Are these not distinct bands with each bassist? Or is it ''the band'' with whoever is on that day? I thought you said there were a heap of bands playing each session.

I don't see any difference between mixing a multi band gig in a bar or a church. You tune your PA to the room and mix the band. If the band can sound good without the PA and they don't play too loud there is no reason the band stage mix can't be reproduced out front using minimal tweakage of bass and guitars.

But what happens is sound guys have their own idea of what the band should sound like and try to bash everything into that. It sure sounds like this is what the sound guy is trying to do.

 

[Downunderwonder]

As to your question. The deluxes have 6 presets available with a little tapdance. There is a vast range of tones. Seriously vast. Like a whole universe of tones. As the guy said, good luck getting ''somewhat uniform" tone from Punk guy and Duck Dunn guy.

 

[two fingers]

Are these not distinct bands with each bassist? Or is it ''the band'' with whoever is on that day? I thought you said there were a heap of bands playing each session.

I don't see any difference between mixing a multi band gig in a bar or a church. You tune your PA to the room and mix the band. If the band can sound good without the PA and they don't play too loud there is no reason the band stage mix can't be reproduced out front using minimal tweakage of bass and guitars.

But what happens is sound guys have their own idea of what the band should sound like and try to bash everything into that. It sure sounds like this is what the sound guy is trying to do.

My apologies. I was comparing the church situation with multiple band shows earlier and that muddied the waters.

This is one band with a couple of positions that rotate members. Four bassists, two drummers, three guitarists (with two on stage at any time), with keys and acoustic always the same people. We are very fortunate in that all three guitarists are amazing at not over playing.

And we play the same kinds of songs every week. A couple of faster songs to kick things off followed by a medium tempo song and then a slower more mellow song at the end.

 

[Downunderwonder]

I see. Do the guitarists play with similar tone for each song in the collective repertoire? One or two guitars? Keys changes? Anything else?

A change of rhythm guitarist can quickly change how a supportive and locked in drummer and bassist perform. With a change of groove a different tone is often appropriate.

Likewise a supportive rhythm guitar and drummer may respond to a bassist going off on his own tangent.

Or you can try and make it all 'sound' the same.

Vive le tone. Embrace it. Mix it. If it can't be mixed then fix it.

 

[gumtown]

Why not have all 4 bass players on at the same time?
That would be something special.

 

[Downunderwonder]

You can fix it by making it all the same. How's that working out? Try the shift in paradigm. Embrace the tone.

 

[two fingers]

You can fix it by making it all the same. How's that working out? Try the shift in paradigm. Embrace the tone.

You have shared some good points with me and I appreciate it. And I don't want to turn this into any kind of religious debate.

However, I will go so far as to share this. Praise and worship music is not about rocking out, convincing people to buy drinks, or even (to a certain extent) expressing one's own artistic sensibilities. Whereas a multiple band show at a bar is all about embracing our diverse styles, we're not talking about that here. We're talking about a spiritual thing. Check your ego at the door. This ain't about what YOU want to do with YOUR sound and YOUR style. And that winds up being the problem inany churches. Some musicians simply can't understand that the point is bigger than the music. Individual bassists' tone is NOT what needs to be "embraced". Thanks.