Project Vista Sonic (rut row, JIO's at it again!)

[JIO]

Found this, BTW...it's about guitars, but I imagine the same thing applies to basses.
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If you wanted your own sound from a Tri sonic it was too bad, the guitar already decided for you what tones you required. The rotary switch gave you a choice of Treble, Jazz, Split Sound a forth position labelled “Wild dog.”

Each pickup was actually two pickups with two separate coils and these were switched via a complex arrangement of the rotary control. So with three double pickups there were six coils to switch, sadly the designers limited the outputs of these to just four options.

So, “Wild dog” was actually an out of phase sound with very high treble, “Treble” was the bridge pickup, “Jazz” was the neck and centre pick ups and “Split sound” was a something quite original. The coil under the treble three strings on the bridge pickup was paired with the coil under the three bass strings in the neck pickup. Thus the sound was “split”, the treble strings were very treble and the bass strings very bassy. Actually Gretch once made a guitar with two bass strings and four normal and Chet Atkins made an album with it, just sounded like two separate guitars.

These pickups were actually low impedance with a matching transformer built into the instrument. The coils were not wound onto the magnets as in a Fender Strat type design but were wound separately and then placed into the housing around the magnets. Because of this loose design the pickups could be quite microphonic but they do have a sound of their own, Brian May used Burns pickups in the famous guitar he built and plays.

Sadly, the quality of the Trisonic wiring left a bit to be desired nothing was screened and the whole wiring loom used to be laced up with a single black cable, which they didn't bother to earth. By any standards it could pick up quite a bit of hum and noise, earthing the lacing cable would virtually cure that.

Burns Guitars
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And I found this as well that's more bass-centric:

Beat Portraits: Burns Volume 3

Thanks for that Jimmy - looking more forward to hearing after reading this! 31.5" scale! That's pretty cool coming out of 1964!

 

[farace]

BTW, if you do Facebook, there are a couple of Burns instrument groups on there, and someone may have a lead on some of your missing parts. (No one ever responded to my query about the mute, though.)

Be careful with the pickguard, it's not typical celluloid, but rather engraver's plate and is rather brittle after all these years.

 

[JIO]

Here are my Ampeg Vista Sonic bass and matching Jazz Split Sound guitar. Yes, the bar below the treble pickup is what's left of a mute. In all my searching I have never seen a clear photo of what an intact mute looks like, though I've tried to source one. They must have been awful, and almost universally scrapped.

Odd thing about these instruments that you might not yet be aware of: there is a geared truss rod adjuster in the heel of the neck, not unlike the gearbox in crank-out windows. Burns instruments came with a special tool for adjusting it, but I don't have one, so I found a small sturdy piece of metal tubing and flattened one end to articulate with the flatted rod of the adjuster, and bent the other end into an L shape.

I'm not a fan of the Wild Dog tone setting. For all the possibilities available when there are three split pickups, to have only provided for four, with one of those being Wild Dog, was rather short-sighted.

I think this is the heaviest bass I own; it's a bit of a boat anchor. It's heavier than my Dan Armstrong/Ampeg See Through.

The missing output jack on your bass was a Cliff brand nylon bodied, with a chrome nut. It's similar to the Re'an units.

I have Rotosound Tru-Bass tapewounds on it, only because I read they were designed for the Burns Bison bass. I'm not particularly thrilled with them.

I don't know how many Burns-branded Vista Sonics are in the US. The Ampeg by Burns Vista Sonic is rather rare. I've never run into anyone else with a complete one. I did run into someone with just the body and a replacement neck. Part of the reason for the scarcity was because the import tariff made it an uneconomic purchase compared with, say, a Fender.

Ampeg had Burns making instruments for them until Baldwin purchased Burns, ending that relationship.
View attachment 3713961

Thanks Bob - I was aware of you owning one from a past post and saw it again doing an internet search for related info. As with any project bass, I'm up for seeing what's possible resurrecting it, and I'm not against chambering it if I can make it lighter/more comfortable. I mean, it's not a 'collectors item' in its current state. I've read about the geared truss-rod adjuster and am looking forward to checking it out. I also noticed the tuner construction and see some unorthodox methods of locking in the gears. All of this left-of-center stuff interests me. Are the Roto Tru-Bass tapes light gauge? I use D'Addarrio strings and would be more than likely to continue doing so on this bass. I have one of those nylon bodied jacks, but again - I may stray from 100% authentic and use a basic unit in its place which will work just fine. And it's interesting you haven't seen the mute complete either - there has to be an example of it out there somewhere.

 

[JIO]

BTW, if you do Facebook, there are a couple of Burns instrument groups on there, and someone may have a lead on some of your missing parts. (No one ever responded to my query about the mute, though.)

Be careful with the pickguard, it's not typical celluloid, but rather engraver's plate and is rather brittle after all these years.

Will do (about ginger handling of the pg) thanks for the heads-up! I'll check out the Burns fb groups. I'd love to find a bridge saddle - but if push comes to shove I'll make one myself!

 

[farace]

Thanks Bob - I was aware of you owning one from a past post and saw it again doing an internet search for related info. As with any project bass, I'm up for seeing what's possible resurrecting it, and I'm not against chambering it if I can make it lighter/more comfortable. I mean, it's not a 'collectors item' in its current state. I've read about the geared truss-rod adjuster and am looking forward to checking it out. I also noticed the tuner construction and see some unorthodox methods of locking in the gears. All of this left-of-center stuff interests me. Are the Roto Tru-Bass tapes light gauge? I use D'Addarrio strings and would be more than likely to continue doing so on this bass. I have one of those nylon bodied jacks, but again - I may stray from 100% authentic and use a basic unit in its place which will work just fine. And it's interesting you haven't seen the mute complete either - there has to be an example of it out there somewhere.

A lot of what Jim Burns did was quite innovative and often quirky. Some of it was possibly making things much more complicated than they need to be. Other things were good solutions to existing problems. I mean, you should see the tremolo mechanism on the guitar. The entire bass plate that the saddles rest on ride on small roller bearings. No sawing of the string back and forth over the saddles; the entire plate and everything on it moves back and forth.

The Roto tapewounds are rather heavy in diameter. I don't recall the gauges, but I think the E might be .110. Under the tape they're probably an average gauge, but the tape bumps them up. I've been meaning to take them off and put something else on, maybe my fallback strings, which are D'Addario XL.

I've spent time searching for info on the mute without success. The only photos I found that appeared to have the mute were too low resolution to see anything. I'm under the impression that what's left on your bass, and my bass, is just the base portion, and that there was another portion positioned over the strings that screwed down into the holes at each end of that base. Hopefully I'll find a decent image one of these days.

 

[farace]

Just took another look at your photos; the Vista Sonic badge on the headstock is usually, I think, clear plastic and would show the finish underneath. Is yours black, or is it actually clear with the remains of a black finish beneath it? Perhaps it originally was painted black?

 

[JIO]

Just took another look at your photos; the Vista Sonic badge on the headstock is usually, I think, clear plastic and would show the finish underneath. Is yours black, or is it actually clear with the remains of a black finish beneath it? Perhaps it originally was painted black?

That's what I was thinking - I'll study it once it's here but I imagine it's the dark part of a burst finish that was never stripped off.

 

[JIO]

A lot of what Jim Burns did was quite innovative and often quirky. Some of it was possibly making things much more complicated than they need to be. Other things were good solutions to existing problems. I mean, you should see the tremolo mechanism on the guitar. The entire bass plate that the saddles rest on ride on small roller bearings. No sawing of the string back and forth over the saddles; the entire plate and everything on it moves back and forth.

The Roto tapewounds are rather heavy in diameter. I don't recall the gauges, but I think the E might be .110. Under the tape they're probably an average gauge, but the tape bumps them up. I've been meaning to take them off and put something else on, maybe my fallback strings, which are D'Addario XL.

I've spent time searching for info on the mute without success. The only photos I found that appeared to have the mute were too low resolution to see anything. I'm under the impression that what's left on your bass, and my bass, is just the base portion, and that there was another portion positioned over the strings that screwed down into the holes at each end of that base. Hopefully I'll find a decent image one of these days.

I use the XL's also - most likely what I'll string it with. I'm a recent Dano fan also for similar reasons - odd approach leading to a unique instrument - "quirky" but cool!

 

[mikewalker]

Out our way, (back in the day when these were still in the wild!) the green/black burst was the quintessential Burns coloring... I don't recall ever seeing them in any other color!

 

[JIO]

Out our way, (back in the day when these were still in the wild!) the green/black burst was the quintessential Burns coloring... I don't recall ever seeing them in any other color!

According to what I've read - the Vista Sonic basses were commonly red with black burst, but I agree that the green-burst was what set Burns apart. Having just done my Scarab Deluxe Bass in that colour - it's a looker!

 

[JimmyM]

According to what I've read - the Vista Sonic basses were commonly red with black burst, but I agree that the green-burst was what set Burns apart. Having just done my Scarab Deluxe Bass in that colour - it's a looker!

View attachment 3714076

Is it wrong to admit that I just got a little warm down there?

 

[AlexanderB]

According to what I've read - the Vista Sonic basses were commonly red with black burst, but I agree that the green-burst was what set Burns apart. Having just done my Scarab Deluxe Bass in that colour - it's a looker!

View attachment 3714076

That looks great! Very sleek and timeless.

 

[flatwound62p]

I may be off the mark but I was researching the bass player from The Troggs (a Burns player) and looked at a few Burns basses on the web. This ‘67 Burns Shadows Bass (link below) that was sold a while back apparently had the complete mute system with factory foam. Not much in the way of photos but the dealer might be worth quizzing, seems to know his stuff. Baldwin - Burns Shadows Bass Solid Body Electric Bass Guitar (1967), ser. #20440, original black tolex hard shell case.

 

[Jon Clegg]

Very cool. Looking forward to watching this come back to life!

 

[JIO]

I may be off the mark but I was researching the bass player from The Troggs (a Burns player) and looked at a few Burns basses on the web. This ‘67 Burns Shadows Bass (link below) that was sold a while back apparently had the complete mute system with factory foam. Not much in the way of photos but the dealer might be worth quizzing, seems to know his stuff. Baldwin - Burns Shadows Bass Solid Body Electric Bass Guitar (1967), ser. #20440, original black tolex hard shell case.

Mystery solved! Thanks for this - that answers our question about the mute. The oft missing upper bar most likely had a foam strip on the under-side and it is screwed down against the strings via two bolts attached to the bar screwed into the body. (which has two open treaded holes) No on-the-fly adjustment - it's either on or removed so like mute-systems on early Jazz basses and T-birds - most were removed and lost.

 

[JIO]

Is it wrong to admit that I just got a little warm down there?

That looks great! Very sleek and timeless.

Thanks! Build thread here: Scarab Deluxe Bass

 

[Inky13]

A California man was believed to have caused a major seismic event today after he inadvertently engaged the “Wild Dog” setting on his newly acquired bass guitar.

Details at eleven.

 

[farace]

Mystery solved! Thanks for this - that answers our question about the mute. The oft missing upper bar most likely had a foam strip on the under-side and it is screwed down against the strings via two bolts attached to the bar screwed into the body. (which has two open treaded holes) No on-the-fly adjustment - it's either on or removed so like mute-systems on early Jazz basses and T-birds - most were removed and lost.

It's hard to tell, but those might not even be thumbscrews, so it might need a screwdriver to adjust or remove. And it looks like it makes changing strings much more of a hassle. As questionable as the Rickenbacker mute is, at least it's adjustable by hand, and is below the strings and out of the way.

 

[JIO]

It's hard to tell, but those might not even be thumbscrews, so it might need a screwdriver to adjust or remove. And it looks like it makes changing strings much more of a hassle. As questionable as the Rickenbacker mute is, at least it's adjustable by hand, and is below the strings and out of the way.

I think you are correct - looks to be inset bolts and not adjustable by hand. Personally I much prefer palm-muting over a mute or foam etc anyway.

 

[Dynacord]

I like that greenburst...

Wonder if Wild Dog is anything like the preamp on my Meazzi - very bright (harsh, really) like a high pass filter and presumably meant to mimic a 6 string bass type of tone.