Proper gain structure for recording active bass

[bassartist]

Greetings all. I have an active bass which I record thru a focusrite scarlett 2i2 2nd generation into Garageband. I can get a decent sound but I have to set the level on the scarlett 2i2 at almost zero before it goes into the red. To get the tone I like like, I would like to get the levels higher without distorting. I have ran it direct into the 2i2 1/4 jack as well as XLR from tonehammer di. Any suggestions? I've watched numerous videos but none with this particular issue.

 

[pfschim]

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8, so basically the same interface box, just a few more ins/outs than your 2i2. I also use a variety of basses, including an active Mike Lull.
First off, I'm not sure what you might be doing, but I can turn my bass vol all the way up and usually have the physical gain knob on the Focusrite around 11:00 to get a nice level without any distortion so I don't think its the Focusrite (unless there is something wrong with your unit).

Are you using the Foscurite Control software that comes with the device ? It has an input pad control that might help drop the input gain level.
Are you selecting Inst for your input channel ?
Is your bass signal really hot for some reason (18v preamp, very hot pickups etc ...) ?
Is the Tonehammer level out maybe too high ? maybe the combination of the TH DI and your bass is producing a very hot signal.
Are you pushing the EQ levels on the bass and/or the TH DI ?

You might start by just plugging your bass directly into the 2i2 via 1/4, make sure the 2i2 input is set to Inst and see what you get that way.
Then try adding the Tonehammer DI and perhaps adjusting the Gain, Master and EQ settings until you get the sound you want at a manageable level.

good luck and let us know how it works out. You've got good gear you should be able to get a good working tone for tracking.

 

[silky smoove]

If you're sending it an active signal then there's nothing to be lost by simply turning the volume on the bass down a bit. Turn down the bass until you can get the Focusrite at a more easy to manage knob position, then track so that you don't have any peaks exceeding -6dbfs, if not lower. Easy peasy.

 

[kalle74]

Why do you feel you need to "get higher levels"?

With 24-bit audio, there is pretty much nothing to gain with "getting the levels higher". Any seasoned pro would tadvice you to stay at around -18dBFS RMS. The reasons for this any many-fold(not in particular order):

-Headroom. If you aim for nominal level of -18dBFS, that´s 18dB before you hit your digital ceiling (Full Scale), making sure *that nasty hit* won't hit red and distort.

-Analog compatibility. Most A/D converters have their inputs and outputs calibrated to match -18dBFS of digital with 0dBU of analog gear. So, instant compatibility and pretty close to perfect levels with any analog gear possibly down the road. Also, many plugins have their "starting point" (compressor thresholds etc.) set for a reasonable amount of action at this level.

-More level is not better. Why would it be? And before someone mention better S/N ratio, please check S/N ratios of 24-bit digital systems.

 

[bassartist]

I use a Focusrite Scarlett 18i8, so basically the same interface box, just a few more ins/outs than your 2i2. I also use a variety of basses, including an active Mike Lull.
First off, I'm not sure what you might be doing, but I can turn my bass vol all the way up and usually have the physical gain knob on the Focusrite around 11:00 to get a nice level without any distortion so I don't think its the Focusrite (unless there is something wrong with your unit).

Are you using the Foscurite Control software that comes with the device ? It has an input pad control that might help drop the input gain level.
Are you selecting Inst for your input channel ?
Is your bass signal really hot for some reason (18v preamp, very hot pickups etc ...) ?
Is the Tonehammer level out maybe too high ? maybe the combination of the TH DI and your bass is producing a very hot signal.
Are you pushing the EQ levels on the bass and/or the TH DI ?

You might start by just plugging your bass directly into the 2i2 via 1/4, make sure the 2i2 input is set to Inst and see what you get that way.
Then try adding the Tonehammer DI and perhaps adjusting the Gain, Master and EQ settings until you get the sound you want at a manageable level.

good luck and let us know how it works out. You've got good gear you should be able to get a good working tone for tracking.

Thanks for your info. I just found out that the 2i2 does not come with the control software. I tried running it direct into into the 1/4 in passive without the di. After some tweaking I was able to get a much better sound. I still can't get the level up past 10 o'clock though. My bass is a 5 string LowEnd J.

 

[bassartist]

If you're sending it an active signal then there's nothing to be lost by simply turning the volume on the bass down a bit. Turn down the bass until you can get the Focusrite at a more easy to manage knob position, then track so that you don't have any peaks exceeding -6dbfs, if not lower. Easy peasy.

I guess I can try that. Was going off so many saying turn your volume all the way up to get the best signal. But that makes sense. Thanks.

 

[JKos]

To get the tone I like like, I would like to get the levels higher without distorting.

What do you mean by this? What aspect of tone are you hearing changing with respect to recording level?

 

[bassartist]

What do you mean by this? What aspect of tone are you hearing changing with respect to recording level?

The sound of my bass with the volume all the way up sounds better than at a low level to my ears. And I guess I want that sound when I'm monitoring my recording. But it's no big issue, I can always adjust the volume when I play it back.

 

[JRA]

Was going off so many saying turn your volume all the way up to get the best signal.

that's an old-timey, analog-days, 'tape-saturation' and/or live mixing advice. not really a thing in the digital realm. which is pretty cool, right? good luck with your recordings!

 

[JKos]

The sound of my bass with the volume all the way up sounds better than at a low level to my ears.

Are you referring to the level at which you hear your bass or the position of the volume knob on your bass?

 

[bassartist]

that's an old-timey, analog-days, 'tape-saturation' and/or live mixing advice. not really a thing in the digital realm. which is pretty cool, right? good luck with your recordings!

Thanks, the old-timey, analog-days is where I come from! New to digital.

 

[bassartist]

Are you referring to the level at which you hear your bass or the position of the volume knob on your bass?

The level
at which I'm hearing the bass while monitoring it being recorded.

 

[bassartist]

Thanks everyone for your input. After some tweaking and experimenting, I think I'm getting the hang of this. As I mentioned in a previous post, I'm new to digital as I come from the old analog world.

 

[JKos]

The level
at which I'm hearing the bass while monitoring

That is separate from the recording level.
You should be able to control your monitoring level independently.

 

[spantini]

There's so many ways to monitor while recording.. it can and does mess with your head as you're learning. Just adjust your interface gain to obtain the proper level on your DAW's track meter (around -18dBFS).

What you hear while monitoring gets adjusted elsewhere.

 

[cassanova]

Thanks for your info. I just found out that the 2i2 does not come with the control software. I tried running it direct into into the 1/4 in passive without the di. After some tweaking I was able to get a much better sound. I still can't get the level up past 10 o'clock though. My bass is a 5 string LowEnd J.

Short answer. Don't worry so much where the knob level is so much as you do the input level in your daw.