Fender still manages to pull it off tho
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Pros using a cheap POS?
- Thread starter Greenman72
- Start date
In a sense, Fender guitars and basses were, at a time, "cheap POS" in comparison to more traditional instruments. Anyway, the real question is: what do you expect from a high-end instrument, in comparison to entry-level instruments?
My expectations?
Better fretwork.
Better finish.
No or fewer/much less noticeable dead spots.
Better pickups.
Better hardware.
Nicer-looking wood for the neck (or at least for the fretboard).
Better shielding.
More stable necks (due to higher grade woods or some care taken in their design, eg. "graphite" rods).
The real world?
My Fender Precision Am Std doesn't have better fretwork than my Vintage by Wilkinson Precision, and the finish is better, but not particularly so. The Fender's truss rod adjustment inspires more confidence, but I can adjust both basses fine.
I have played both "professional" basses with dead spots and entry-level basses with dead spots. If it's a FSO, it will probably have some anyway.
My Gibson Non-Reverse Thunderbird has worse fit and finish than the Epiphone Jack Casady I used to have (but a nicer fretboard).
The nicest fit and finish I've ever seen was probably on a (Chinese) Hagstrom Beluga bass. It had a very nice sunburst finish, and the satin neck felt really nice.
The best-shielded bass I have is the one I shielded myself.
The Fender bridge isn't particularly better, if at all, than a cheap Gotoh unit.
A few decades back, it used to be that cheap basses were often mushy sounding pieces of crap, Fender basses were fine, but there were some higher-end basses with laminated or otherwise fancier construction, better balance, etc. and played "better" than a Fender, in that they were more consistent-sounding across the fretboard, had punchy-sounding B-strings, were nice and "taut" and could cut through very dense mixes (with lots of distorted guitars, synthesizers playing thick pads, a lot of overdubs) etc. (or with an inherently "cleaner" tone could be a bit better suited for techniques such as slap bass, tapping, higher-register lines and so on). Or take for example "graphite" necks. They are nowhere to be seen today. Status is no more, Modulus has no exposure these days, etc.
In the last twenty years or so, music trends have gone back to relatively sparser mixes (at least when it comes to guitar music), more focus on the tone and character of the bass. It turns out that modern basses, with their consistent and controlled tone, may tend to be a bit less "interesting" to hear (or too "growly" in a sparse mix, eg. Warwick basses), and/or vintage-sounding basses have a bit more "aura". (Which is why flatwound strings have seen a resurgence, too). If an FSO works well, coupled with the advances in automation, wood treatment etc. it's much easier to make a good FSO than in the past. In a sense, the bar has been somewhat lowered. (FSOs have always been "simple" instruments).
But this also applies to guitars. When was the last time you saw anybody new and famous play a PRS?
My expectations?
Better fretwork.
Better finish.
No or fewer/much less noticeable dead spots.
Better pickups.
Better hardware.
Nicer-looking wood for the neck (or at least for the fretboard).
Better shielding.
More stable necks (due to higher grade woods or some care taken in their design, eg. "graphite" rods).
The real world?
My Fender Precision Am Std doesn't have better fretwork than my Vintage by Wilkinson Precision, and the finish is better, but not particularly so. The Fender's truss rod adjustment inspires more confidence, but I can adjust both basses fine.
I have played both "professional" basses with dead spots and entry-level basses with dead spots. If it's a FSO, it will probably have some anyway.
My Gibson Non-Reverse Thunderbird has worse fit and finish than the Epiphone Jack Casady I used to have (but a nicer fretboard).
The nicest fit and finish I've ever seen was probably on a (Chinese) Hagstrom Beluga bass. It had a very nice sunburst finish, and the satin neck felt really nice.
The best-shielded bass I have is the one I shielded myself.
The Fender bridge isn't particularly better, if at all, than a cheap Gotoh unit.
A few decades back, it used to be that cheap basses were often mushy sounding pieces of crap, Fender basses were fine, but there were some higher-end basses with laminated or otherwise fancier construction, better balance, etc. and played "better" than a Fender, in that they were more consistent-sounding across the fretboard, had punchy-sounding B-strings, were nice and "taut" and could cut through very dense mixes (with lots of distorted guitars, synthesizers playing thick pads, a lot of overdubs) etc. (or with an inherently "cleaner" tone could be a bit better suited for techniques such as slap bass, tapping, higher-register lines and so on). Or take for example "graphite" necks. They are nowhere to be seen today. Status is no more, Modulus has no exposure these days, etc.
In the last twenty years or so, music trends have gone back to relatively sparser mixes (at least when it comes to guitar music), more focus on the tone and character of the bass. It turns out that modern basses, with their consistent and controlled tone, may tend to be a bit less "interesting" to hear (or too "growly" in a sparse mix, eg. Warwick basses), and/or vintage-sounding basses have a bit more "aura". (Which is why flatwound strings have seen a resurgence, too). If an FSO works well, coupled with the advances in automation, wood treatment etc. it's much easier to make a good FSO than in the past. In a sense, the bar has been somewhat lowered. (FSOs have always been "simple" instruments).
But this also applies to guitars. When was the last time you saw anybody new and famous play a PRS?
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5 or 6 years ago I bought a $60 lucite bass. Put new strings on it, adjusted the intonation and action, and gigged with it the next night. I mean, I'm no Pino Palladino, but I don't think anyone thought twice about it.
They were made in NJ at the Dano factory. They had solid bodies. The sitars came in two models, the first had the sympathetic strings the second had only the 6 guitar strings. Instead of the usual Dano bridge, a large saddle was used to make the strings buzz.
Vincent Bell was a busy NYC studio guitarist. The Corals have his name on the headstock.
The “baby” version without the sympathetic strings.
Jerry Jones later made copies of the “baby” sitar.
Rogue (the MF house brand) also sold a copy of the Coral right down to the crackled finish. You can find these used for a lot less than a real Coral.
Try jamming a folded up matchbook cover under the strings at the bridge and you can get that buzzing sound on the cheap.
Yeah on inexpensive basses. In 2019 i bought a Sterling ray4 for this open mic we hosted. I got to where it was all I played even at my good gigs! Solid, stays in tune, get compliments, neck has not fell off! Some refer to these as “musical firewood”
After 6 years of regular use it still has not went up in flames! Cheap? No, inexpensive ? Yes, POS ? No way. Does it compare to my USA Music man? Not so much, is the MM 100% better? No it’s about 15% better
After 6 years of regular use it still has not went up in flames! Cheap? No, inexpensive ? Yes, POS ? No way. Does it compare to my USA Music man? Not so much, is the MM 100% better? No it’s about 15% better
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Both absolutely fair points, but it leads to the question of how much that budget instrument really cost you if you add up all the effort and new parts. Lets say I was going to replace the tuners in my HB. I'm not, but fine. A budget set is £30, but are they going to be meaningfully better than the ones already in there? Gotohs are £150+. The same is true for pickups. I can get a pickup for less than £50, but realistically the 'good' aftermarket ones that people buy are in the £100-£200 range. This means the £109 bass can easily end up being £300-£400, nevermind my time and effort. For £400 I can just buy a Sire or a nice Ibanez.
I agree that they still do make some real clunkers, but you've got to look pretty hard on Aliexpress or in lousy store's own brands to find a bass that isn't above the 'usability line' these days. Almost anything you can buy with a recognisable name on the headstock will be fine.
I recently bought a used CV Squier P-Bass - upgraded all the electronics and put a Fender PV63 PU in it and I am all in on this Bass for $550.00 (It came with a HSC as well)!!! The thing sounds amazing and I alternate between it and an AM ProII P bass while gigging!
My point was more on the OP topic, assuming a certain bass is a POS. On the contrary, I assume if I see any (cheap) bass on stage, it’s been looked over and any necessary adjustments have been made to achieve a certain level of playability.
While I’m certainty interested in the similar topics of “how little can I spend to get a playable bass” that’s not what I was getting at!
As an amateur/hobbyist the value of my bass collection has trended inversely to my gig rate.
- Jun 30, 2010
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- musician/artist/owner - Gildaxe
My '68 Coral Deluxe Bass and two '68 Silvertone 1443 Hornets are all 100% Dano. The Hornets have a different electronic harness but the CDB has the two stacked pots as most Dano's. The CDB was essentially a RI of the early '60s Dano Dane E, and in no way a "cheap POS". Coral bought Danelectro in '67 and tanked in '69.
I do not consider any Dano a "cheap POS" - Nat Danials' philosophy was to offer an affordable bass to players made using available materials including lip-stick casing for his pu's. The result was a guitar/bass that was affordable, light in weight, and they played and sounded great as illustrated by the numerous top-teir players using them on classic recordings over the decades starting in the '50s. All the reissues since also sound good due to the original Dano ingredients. (I also have a MII '99 Longhorn)
Carol Kaye playing a Dano 6 on the studio recording -
I build my own basses, and do setups for a lot of folks in my scene. I can (and have) take a budget bass, and get it to where it'll play very well. I can't make it balance better without changing a bunch of parts, or weigh a lot less in most cases, but a lot of what makes a cheap bass cheap nowadays is they haven't put in the time to tweak things to their utmost. But the basics (done by CNC on any bass nowadays) are usually done quite well. If a top level pro likes the look of a cheap bass, and has a good tech, you can be assured that that bass is well setup, and has been tweaked to where it's a good musical instrument.
@B-Mac and @Fullmoon1971
Additional info concerning Tony James. Here he is at L’Ubu in France and at Glastonbury.
There'll be other photos from the likes of Montreux Jazz, Hellfest, Tons of Rock
Link to the bass in question.
Invalid Link Removed
Lad who started the " What bass ?" thread even got a tweet from Tony confirming it was a G4M Chicago
www.basschat.co.uk
Additional info concerning Tony James. Here he is at L’Ubu in France and at Glastonbury.
There'll be other photos from the likes of Montreux Jazz, Hellfest, Tons of Rock
Link to the bass in question.
Invalid Link Removed
Lad who started the " What bass ?" thread even got a tweet from Tony confirming it was a G4M Chicago
Tony James Generation Sex
Hi This is Tony James who's playing with Generation Sex........ Can any one tell me what this bass is because being played through a full stack Ampeg last night I've gotta say it sounded fabulous. Thanks Mike
www.basschat.co.uk
I was in a band that opened up for The Dropkick Murphys. I used:
-Used OLP (passive Stingray) that I bought for $99. It was killer.
-Used SWR Workingman 2x10 Combo that was $150. Maybe. I can't remember. Didn't like the sound, the weight or the packaging but it was ok.
I wish I had that OLP back. A bass I regret selling. Played and sounded AWESOME.
My total including strings was 280 on the Debut.
The MFD’s were 50.
I just bought Gotoh Res-o-lites for my Epi bird for 90.
Ordering a set of GB640’s for my purple bird for 117 as I type this.
I do my own fretwork.
Guyker and Kaish tuners are generally pretty decent.
I have a set of carbon fiber/ aluminum tuners (SUPER LIGHT) on another bass that were 69.00
The pickups in the Debut were fine!
The POTS were terrible!
Those where replaced with TOCOS (9.00)
CTS (4.99)
In 2025, it doesn't matter what people play anymore. Probably stopped mattering 10-15 years ago.
Thats why I want to slim down to 3..but its so tough deciding which one is the final keeper.
My current criteria is which great bass works least best in the tracks.
I can love everything about it until I realise it doesn't sit. Conversley, the same rule is used to promote a bass.
But yep, it can be a mystery in my mind why players are using the bass they have on the gig.
I'd love to offer Bonamassa an obscene amount of money to play a stock Squier onstage for an entire show. Through a Kemper modeler. I bet he wouldn't do it.
