Question about isolated bass tracks .. Is it possible?

[THany]

Especially for a bass player who was right-handed but played left-handed because he idolized Sir Paul so much.

If you have any connection to moderators please ask them to delete the thread. I have.
If you read some of my explanation comments, maybe you'd understand there's no need to go on about it.
Thank you.

 

[FullumMusic]

Listening to the isolated bass track without any context you really can't say his timing is off because you can't hear the rest of the band.
What you're hearing is the natural push & pull of music. Even with a click, music isn't robotic. Even when i make electronic dance music on my computer locked to a grid, i'm pulling things off the grid.

If you listen to individual elements in isolation they might sound off with "bad timing", but in the context of a groove, in the context of a full band playing together, it's exactly right. And if you listen to the bass line in the context of the song, the band is playing together.

If the bassist was the only one playing exactly on the click, the isolated bass would sound in time and the song would sound like a jumbled mess. Part of having good timing is being able to play in time with the other musicians, not just the click.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

If it worked within the context of the song and you never noticed until hearing it isolated, how can it be "off" or wrong?

 

[lm183902]

If you have any connection to moderators please ask them to delete the thread. I have.
If you read some of my explanation comments, maybe you'd understand there's no need to go on about it.
Thank you.

Certainly no need to delete or feel bad about any of this. It was just an observation and I would hope no one is offended by it. I don't think you're alone in thinking an isolated bass track sounds weird, but after hearing many over the years (I'm an audio engineer), I'm completely used to the fact that there are some warts, even in the classic ones. Even some of the most heralded players of all time can sound odd out of context. I remember hearing Jameson tracks for the first time and being surprised by the way they felt compared to in the mix.

 

[jj4001]

Electric bass just has a tendency to be a noisy and kinda rude instrument. There’s just a lot of burps and farts in there, especially in a loud band context. In isolation well-played bass is perfectly capable of sounding ham-fisted and nasty, but that’s where the character and life is in a full band mix. So much of the clank, clang, buzz and rattle is masked by the full band, you don’t even perceive it being there. But, a lot of the cool bass sounds we’ve all heard is a little bit of that nastiness peaking through the mix and saying hello.

For this reason, I’ve found it kinda useful to crank the treble and upper midrange just slightly higher than you’re comfortable with, and the reason is two-fold: One, it’s keeps you honest with your technique because it can really punish you for being too lazy and sloppy. And two, much of the imperfection that inevitably sneaks past your best effort helps give the music that human touch that we all respond to on a primal and instinctual level.

Also, all the posters who have said you cannot truly judge an isolated bass track when listened to out of context are 100% correct. Of course there are exceptions, but typically, there’s push and pull to the beat because most songs ask to be played that way.

Thank you.
I asked the moderators to delete it, because I just feel bad now, that I understand how it looks.
I didnt mean it to sound the way people took it and I really feel bad about it.
Thanks for your kind words

It would be a shame to delete this thread. How many learning opportunities get missed out on by silencing voices that view through a prism different than consensus?

 

[Mister Magic]

How is this an "absolute troll thread"? Talk about whiny snowflakes. Go get some Kleenex, brah.

Some of the greatest songs by the greatest bass players have sloppy isolated bass tracks. Many reasons for this. Many of us have been shocked by how "sloppy" great bass tracks sound in isolation.

This is not some new discovery. Engineers and producers have been discussing it forever. And it shouldn't be offensive.

I will refrain from giving examples. I would be afraid to start my car in the morning. Geesh.

 

[FullumMusic]

If you have any connection to moderators please ask them to delete the thread. I have.
If you read some of my explanation comments, maybe you'd understand there's no need to go on about it.
Thank you.

No need to delete it. A lot of great info about isolated tracks vs playing as a band, groove, and timing. Lots for people to stumble across and learn from in the future.

 

[Gilmourisgod]

My favorite Aerosmith tune, Back in the Saddle, with Joe Perry on Bass VI. Sloppy as hell, both timing and technique, but it sounds great in the mix. It’s not universally true of course, listen to almost any isolated bass track by Chris Squire of Geddy Lee, for instance, which are virtually immaculate.

 

[Mister Magic]

My favorite Aerosmith tune, Back in the Saddle, with Joe Perry on Bass VI. Sloppy as hell, both timing and technique, but it sounds great in the mix. It’s not universally true of course, listen to almost any isolated bass track by Chris Squire of Geddy Lee, for instance, which are virtually immaculate.

I agree about Squire. Roundabout sounds super clean isolated and that is not an easy bass line to play as clean as he does.

I have definitely heard Geddy tracks that are not. I say this as a huge Geddy Lee fan. Like, top 5 best rock bass players. Maybe top 2 or 3.

Speaking of guitarists playing bass lines, listen to the isolated bass on "Hot for Teacher". That's Eddie and it is sloppy for sure. Sounds great in the mix, though.

 

[jerry]

The bass playing in Rod Stewart's Every Picture album is gloriously sloppy, but it kills and is a classic great album. I'll take feel over perfection anyday, and in my mind will be the thing A.I. won't be able to copy. The worst thing about electric jazz in the 80's was that producers were locking in great rhythm sections with their "programming".

 

[Danny O Danny]

Leaving aside the specific example given, it's been eye-opening for me since the advent of isolated tracks from albums of the 70's/80's, how often the bass kinda sounds like crap, sometimes sloppy playing, fret noise, clumsy punch-ins, etc. But then when I go back and listen to the full mix it does the job just fine. I think, in rock & roll particularly, those imperfections contribute to the swagger. I recall reading Elvis Costello's recollections about recording his first album, which was done very quickly and cheaply (six four-hour sessions, in an 8-track studio, for a cost of about £2,000) but spawned multiple hits. The producer, Nick Lowe, would say to the band "just bash it down and we'll tart it up in the mix." In other words, he was more interested in the energy (and economy) than the perfection.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I hear ya and sorry you're taking such a beating from some here who are misunderstanding your question. In answer to that question - yes. People used to not play things perfectly, and it still sounded great because it worked perfectly with everything else.

Also, if you want to be sure you're getting the actual recorded versions of the tracks, you can use this AI Music Maker - Fadr . There are probably others nowadays, I got that one a while back and it works excellently. I checked out Hot Blooded, and yeah... the real bass is sloppy as all hell . I kinda like that though. It shows how human we all are. And how great things can be even if they aren't perfect.

 

[bullshark]

For a few time already I recorded myself playing to songs recorded in the 60's and 70's. Well, in isolation my own bass playing sound off timing wise, while it sounds just fine in the context of the song. And if I record the same line to a click, so dead on, it doesn't fit in the song anymore. IMO it's because they recorded the actual artist performances in those days, without even a click track, so the tempo would vary throughout a song.

It's something we lost in our current years of quantizing everything to a grid, it remove the human element and make it sound sterile. Perfect, yes, but devoid of emotions.

 

[Wood and Wire]

No, I don't! anyone with an average ear can hear it. it is REALLY bad!

If it's that bad, it will show even in context.