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R&B PICKUP POLL WHAT IT IS AND WHAT IT SHALL BE.

#21
I guess my bass is a little to up front to me, I can't afford a Jazz bass right now. Its to punchy for me, I want a more smooth layed back sound. It's hard to for me to say, I am going to look on the internet tonight and see if I can find some one with the type of sound I am looking for. Maybe you guys know some one with a P bass.
 
#24
I went to a party last night a friend was having, it was for a bunch of musicians, He his also is a Bass, Guitar and Drum instructor and he had some of his students there. I was his student at one time. Anyway there was a dude there,who was a very good bass player. He was using a Frankenstein bass. He didn't know where the body came from, it was just a p bass. It had a Birds Eye Maple neck on it. He loaded it with Lollar pickups and I was amazed. I ask him he had time, for me to drive the 8 miles home and snag my amp. It was great, as for me I think I am going with the Lollars.
 
#26
Just as a reference point... we hear bass on recordings after it has been mixed and EQd and such, but what did it sound like going into the board?

Here's a sample of some Motown clips. In all cases the bass was DI (yes, even James' bass) and you can hear that they sound much brighter than people expect. But after all the instruments are pilled on, and the bass mixed back a bit, it doesn't seem as bright.

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First you hear I Want You Back (Wilton Felder), Brick House (Ron LaPread), Let's Get It On (Wilton Felder).

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These are the real tracks from Rick Suchow - Bass & Pen - Bass

A couple of things you notice is that the old flats were very thumpy. I used to like the original Fender flats, but I hear the newer ones sound different. Strings like Chromes are too clean sounding. Maybe the LaBellas are more like it, since that's what Jamerson used. Jamerson had a whole lot of foam under his strings. Felder sounds like he mad the normal mute on the bridge cover, and LaPread didn't have any. Also, the P pickups would tend to break up a little when you pluck hard.

Here's a good example of that:

ABC (Wilton Felder)
 
#27
SGD Lutherie said:
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First you hear I Want You Back (Wilton Felder), Brick House (Ron LaPread), Let's Get It On (Wilton Felder).
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First, very cool clips, thanks for sharing.

I am almost always amazed at what I hear when I listen to these isolated bass clips. They are usually much brighter and rougher than I ever imagined. "I Want You back" sounds like a pick and foam mute, which I never would have guessed listening to the full mix. My band currently plays this song, and I worked my ass off to nail that part nice and clean. Now I wonder why I did.

Same thing with "Brick House."

It illustrates the point though. Sometimes what we think we hear in the full-band mix is NOT what was tracked.

Now here's where I piss some people off (apologies up-front): I think that one decently crafted P Bass pickup is about as good as the next. Any differences between them are subtle at best, and the nuances are probably going to be lost in the mix.

Fingers, picks, mutes, player dynamics...that's where your R&B and funk comes from.
 
#28
electracoyote said:
First, very cool clips, thanks for sharing.

I am almost always amazed at what I hear when I listen to these isolated bass clips. They are usually much brighter and rougher than I ever imagined. "I Want You back" sounds like a pick and foam mute, which I never would have guessed listening to the full mix. My band currently plays this song, and I worked my ass off to nail that part nice and clean. Now I wonder why I did.

Same thing with "Brick House."
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It's not a pick, but they are just digging in and playing hard, especially Brick House. Also they probably had the level up pretty hot at the board, since you hear some clipping. But bass records better on the hot side.

It illustrates the point though. Sometimes what we think we hear in the full-band mix is NOT what was tracked.
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Exactly. I hear younger players trying to get a Motown tone, and they are using a Jazz bass with an SVT and have the tone control rolled off. You can't hear what they are playing! Its all this low dull thud and no bite and punch. It ends up like a cartoon version of Motown. It's also the wrong bass.

Now here's where I piss some people off (apologies up-front): I think that one decently crafted P Bass pickup is about as good as the next. Any differences between them are subtle at best, and the nuances are probably going to be lost in the mix.
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I have to partially agree. Most P bass replacements are made like the original. So the differences will be small.

Fingers, picks, mutes, player dynamics...that's where your R&B and funk comes from.
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+1 Players used what was available then. All the basses had flats, and usually you used what it came with. It just sounded like a bass.
 
#30
randysmojo said:
would strings like GHS Precision Flats or Tapewounds help get a fat Motown sound closer to Jamerson? I imagine they wouldn't cost as much as LaBellas.
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GHS Precision flats are outstanding for old-school tone like that, at least IMO. I like a brighter tone on stage, so I've never gigged with them on my P-bass, but I loved them for recording, rehearsal, etc. They provided the thickest tone on the D & G strings I've ever had.

For pickups, another vote for the Fralin. Good split-coil pickups share many tonal qualities, for sure, but IMO the Fralin is a meaningful upgrade over stock MIA Fender pickups because it has stronger attack/punch, and greater clarity across the board but especially in the lows. So, you get all the classic thump, but it isn't muddy unless you force the issue. IMO, stock Fender pickups provide lots of thump and often sound great, but the Fralin's additional clarity makes it more versatile, and I love the gritty punch. IME, Fender's MIA split-coils often sound GREAT with D'Addario Chromes though, so those might be worth a try before swapping pickups.
 

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