Hmm, that would be interesting. I can't think of a note that is neither chromatic nor diatonic. I assume you mean it's not a typical chromatic approach note nor in the scale for the chord.
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reading and beyond
- Thread starter txhawaii
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Hmm, that would be interesting. I can't think of a note that is neither chromatic nor diatonic. I assume you mean it's not a typical chromatic approach note nor in the scale for the chord.
Followup to Bob DeRosa's mention of Sam Jones.
There's a bass educator named Ron Gourlay who has a series of transcription books he titled "Walking In The Steps Of..."
One of the books is a Sam Jones book, also Paul Chambers (two books) and Doug Watkins.
There's a bass educator named Ron Gourlay who has a series of transcription books he titled "Walking In The Steps Of..."
One of the books is a Sam Jones book, also Paul Chambers (two books) and Doug Watkins.
Learning to read, even at my still primitive level, has opened up a much wider universe of music. For example, there are some classical music scores that I can read and play that I really enjoy. As for walking lines, I found Constructing Walking Jazz Bass Lines: Walking Bass Lines in 12 Keys useful. Much of it is just lines written in all 12 keys, but the first section of the book goes over some basic theoretical stuff such as inversions and tri-tone substitutions that is useful when it comes to understanding why a line works. Finally, in terms of reading and understanding what was going on in at least some lines, was a page from a book by Joaquin des Pres (Simplified Sight Reading for Bass) that showed me how intervals follow a consistent pattern when written (e.g., thirds are written as two notes on either adjacent spaces or adjacent lines - a C on the second space and an E on the third space, a G on the first line and a B on the second line). I should have been able to see this when I was just beginning to read, but did not. I was too focused on just single notes. Now, sometimes (and I mean just sometimes), I can see a pattern in the notes and get what is going on.
Walking is about the movement. Familiarize yourself with the intervals and think of them as the words you would use build a phrase or sentence. If you can internalize the intervals and can start to play them purposefully you’re pretty much there.
As with many things in music, I think it's also very important to learn the feel of the specific style of music you want to replicate. The correct note choice is like 20% of the battle. The other 80% are trying to convince the audience of what you want it to sound like. Get a feel and try not to think too much about hitting the right notes. Maybe even try to not think about notes much at all and instead try to use shapes. Guitar and bass guitar have the incredible advantage that you can just shift around shapes and get the same intervals just with different notes.
Furthermore, I feel like walking bass is one of those things, where you have to learn to be very spontaneous. I probably would already start to learn how to improvise. If you know all the notes on the neck, that shouldn't be too difficult. Make your own lines, don't think too much about the note choice. Just try to hit each beat correctly. You learn the fastest by just playing and failing. Use chromatic notes in between, use dynamics, try not to be too horribly repetitive. Most importantly, if you don't enjoy yourself, take a break.
Furthermore, I feel like walking bass is one of those things, where you have to learn to be very spontaneous. I probably would already start to learn how to improvise. If you know all the notes on the neck, that shouldn't be too difficult. Make your own lines, don't think too much about the note choice. Just try to hit each beat correctly. You learn the fastest by just playing and failing. Use chromatic notes in between, use dynamics, try not to be too horribly repetitive. Most importantly, if you don't enjoy yourself, take a break.
THIS
regardless if your goal is to improve reading or walking or both.
listen, figure it out , write it down.
if you have access to someone who can validate your result even better
wiritng is the best way to learn reading
(also btw I should have made it more clear in my original reply that I was focused on the learning-to-read part and not so much the learning to play walking lines part, which I have a totally different set of opinions about
)Reading anything when you're learning is good, I think, but Jim's books are really method books and not just reading practice. The method Jim used to teach sight reading-- well, at least, this is what I took away from him when I was studying with him, he never explicitly said to me "this is the method", and he definitely did not claim to have invented it, it's just what he used.
Anyway, the method that you learn in his reading books for electric bass is that he gives you an etude, lets say maybe its a piece in Bb major. Without any fingerings, you could play it wherever you want, and many new readers are accustomed to playing pieces with fingerings that would have you start down in the root position, since you're sort of working your way into knowing the fingerboard. Jim would have you make Bb on the E string your home position, and so if you have your second finger at Bb, in the sort of conventional major scale left hand shape, you now can cover everything from A on the E string, to Eb on the G string without any shifts.
For new readers, the area between the fifth and twelfth frets can be kinda scary, especially if you spend a lot of time down in the root position but are given a tune that is playing stuff above our high C and are having to shift lengthwise on the G. Jim would write etudes where it just made more sense to play in that home position, but he would keep working you in that area, not straying far from the key and focusing on intervals which fit neatly onto the staff in the beginning.
What would start to happen as you work your way through the etudes was that instead of having to look at the notehead and think "oh thats a A" and then to have to think about where its at in that unfamiliar area of the fingerboard, your eye would just sort of recognize that the vertical distance between say, the Bb and the A was a VII, and the right finger would just start to go there.
So really what he was trying to get us to do was to have a sort of formula for cold reading a piece; work out the key, work out the position, scan through it for places where we're going to have to shift or stretch for a note, etc. You could definitely learn to read without this method, but I think if you're teaching an assembly line of electric bassists who are lousy readers, you find out over the years how you can optimize the process. He was also quick to point out that double bass is an entirely different ball o wax; I can't remember if he was a Simandl guy or not because I didn't start double bass until many years after I had left Boston, but I think he took a different approach with it than with electric (maybe someone else who studied double bass with him can confirm)
But anyway, I like the books because they've got a lot of material that gives you practice in that, I guess you'd call it "position playing". It's obviously _great_ to read other stuff too, but Jim was good about stringing together etudes in a way that helped you with the crawl-walk-run progression, instead of throwing you into the deep end with solo transcriptions and stuff, although he definitely wrote a ton of those books too.
Anyhow hope that helps- it's a little puzzling because I don't think his books (at least not the ones I have) came out and explained the method he was using, although some of the other method books I've worked with over the years have been like that. I guess the idea is that if you play the pieces as written, nobody needs to explain anything to you, you just sorta learn it anyway.
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(also btw I should have made it more clear in my original reply that I was focused on the learning-to-read part and not so much the learning to play walking lines part, which I have a totally different set of opinions about
Reading anything when you're learning is good, I think, but Jim's books are really method books and not just reading practice. The method Jim used to teach sight reading-- well, at least, this is what I took away from him when I was studying with him, he never explicitly said to me "this is the method", and he definitely did not claim to have invented it, it's just what he used.
Anyway, the method that you learn in his reading books for electric bass is that he gives you an etude, lets say maybe its a piece in Bb major. Without any fingerings, you could play it wherever you want, and many new readers are accustomed to playing pieces with fingerings that would have you start down in the root position, since you're sort of working your way into knowing the fingerboard. Jim would have you make Bb on the E string your home position, and so if you have your second finger at Bb, in the sort of conventional major scale left hand shape, you now can cover everything from A on the E string, to Eb on the G string without any shifts.
For new readers, the area between the fifth and twelfth frets can be kinda scary, especially if you spend a lot of time down in the root position but are given a tune that is playing stuff above our high C and are having to shift lengthwise on the G. Jim would write etudes where it just made more sense to play in that home position, but he would keep working you in that area, not straying far from the key and focusing on intervals which fit neatly onto the staff in the beginning.
What would start to happen as you work your way through the etudes was that instead of having to look at the notehead and think "oh thats a A" and then to have to think about where its at in that unfamiliar area of the fingerboard, your eye would just sort of recognize that the vertical distance between say, the Bb and the A was a VII, and the right finger would just start to go there.
So really what he was trying to get us to do was to have a sort of formula for cold reading a piece; work out the key, work out the position, scan through it for places where we're going to have to shift or stretch for a note, etc. You could definitely learn to read without this method, but I think if you're teaching an assembly line of electric bassists who are lousy readers, you find out over the years how you can optimize the process. He was also quick to point out that double bass is an entirely different ball o wax; I can't remember if he was a Simandl guy or not because I didn't start double bass until many years after I had left Boston, but I think he took a different approach with it than with electric (maybe someone else who studied double bass with him can confirm)
But anyway, I like the books because they've got a lot of material that gives you practice in that, I guess you'd call it "position playing". It's obviously _great_ to read other stuff too, but Jim was good about stringing together etudes in a way that helped you with the crawl-walk-run progression, instead of throwing you into the deep end with solo transcriptions and stuff, although he definitely wrote a ton of those books too.
Anyhow hope that helps- it's a little puzzling because I don't think his books (at least not the ones I have) came out and explained the method he was using, although some of the other method books I've worked with over the years have been like that. I guess the idea is that if you play the pieces as written, nobody needs to explain anything to you, you just sorta learn it anyway.
nicely written. I did find stinnett's reading book is selling at $40. that's pretty pricey. anyone have one to sell cheaper?
in the very beginning I would take music and just write the corresponding alphabet underneath each note. Id spend for ever going back and erasing F because it was actually an A then figuring out that E was actually Eb etc. that helped a lot. I don't have to do that now but I'm still not that fast but its gets better every time.
ah they've definitely gone up some it seems- I wonder if there might be some floating around ebay?
thanks btw- also regarding learning to walk vs learning to read, I replied to another thread a couple of weeks ago, this might be helpful: Jazz Progressions to Start With?
A lot of that is echoing what some other comments on this thread were saying- transcription, memorization, and performance with people who push you are really the keys. Just make sure to give yourself the space to be bad at it for a long time; everyone who is any good needed a big chunk of their life to get there so its important that you're able to enjoy yourself even while you suck.
Tommy Shannon helped me understand the 12 bars. I grew up in Texas and when I was about 17, I saw SRV live in April 1990 and he died just months later. I didn't appreciate it then. We were at a big outdoor festival where were were more concerned at buying beer than the music.
