Realizing potential, or military coup?

[Wissen]

Let me know which one this story sounds like:

I met up with a band this past weekend that is looking for a bassist and a guitarist. Their style of music is kind of in line with mine, so we clicked, and long story short I got the job.

I say "kind of" because I am wrestling with a few things. First, I am the only trained musician in the group - the other guys aren't bad, but they are taking a more, shall we say, commercial approach to the band. The guy with the studio is fronting pretty much all of the start-up costs, and they are looking to sign, record, and tour without what I would consider "putting in the work." I see the potential in these guys - the lead singer/pianist has real talent as a songwriter, and the drummer is more than capable. I just don't get the sense that being a tight band is their first priority. My number one priority for any group is to have a fun and interesting live show, not just play through the record as you would have heard it in the car on the way to the show.

So I have all these ideas, and I know I could whip these guys into shape, so to speak, but they have been at this a while and already have about an album's worth of material. Where is the line between the new guy putting in his two cents and the new guy trying to come in and take over the band?

Can anyone else share insight/experience into this type of situation? How did you do it? Did it work? Why or why not?

 

[phatbass]

Are you an employee, or part of the band? And are they actually gigging?

If they're "established", or if you're a hired gun, I'd STFU.

If you are part of the band, I'd voice my concerns over areas you think need improvement. But as you're the "new boy" in any case I'd tread carefully.

 

[Wissen]

They are not established, just trying to get started. They were looking for a bassist and guitarist to be in the band, not just a hired gun. If this were just a hired gun situation, of course I'd have no platform to stand on.

At the heart of the issue, so it would appear for me, is the age-old "Is a less-than-desirable gig better than no gig at all?" These guys could be fun, but how much capital do I have to work with?

 

[cameltoe]

If you have more experience than them, they should have no trouble taking your constructive critism and using it to make them a better band.

Our band got a new drummer a while back, and he's a very experienced guy, been in lots of local bands. He replaced the old drummer who hadn't been playing long, and always hit the drums hard. Once the new drummer got his head round all the songs we did, he wasn't afraid to speak up if things could be tightened. He's actually made a hell of a difference to our band, he's brought in much more dynamics, where there were hardly any before. It was just all-out volume. He's substantially tightned things, and also made suggestions on reformatting songs to get the best from them.

He still sees himself as the new boy even now, but we've come on loads by listening to what he has to say.

Go for it.

 

[AlembicPlayer]

they are looking to sign, record, and tour

a few questions -

so I assume it's all original material
who wrote it? just the keyboard player?
did they give you charts for the bass lines or
are you writing the bass parts?
How will the song credits play out?

If you are writing parts and arranging, then you have serious input and should get credits for your input. IMO
A group effort in the arrangements works well if you can get there.

good luck!

 

[EBodious]

i would guess that how much "capital" you have is based on irrational things like personalities, experience and age, etc. if you want to really help these guys and stay in the band i think you will have to feel out how to best approach them with your thoughts. i think you are wise to balance your desire to offer a lot of help with your awareness that you are new and don't wanna appear to take over. relationships are about effective communication and compromise. i say keep the long view in mind and move slowly. test the waters and see how they receive your constructive criticism.

as a guy with way too many opinions (and a willingness to share them), i have learned the hard way that how you share your great and helpful ideas is more important than the ideas themselves (that is, if you want people to listen to you!).

good luck

 

[baalroo]

I would think the best route here would be to say something along the lines of "I know I'm the new guy and haven't put in the same time and effort into this band yet, and I will not push any of these ideas on the band, but I would like to make a few points about where the band is, where it could be, and my opinions on the some things that may help us to get there...." If you say something along these lines I think you'll gain a lot of respect and they'll see you're serious about the band and have well thought out ideas without sounding pushy or like you're trying to take over. This will also give you an idea of how receptive they are to your opinions.

 

[Thor]

My new band, Opus in Black, had a similar situation. The band
leader/keys/singer/songwriter had all of his original material
written and set to go.

I pointed out to him that what I had to bring to the party
was adequate live backup vocals, good bass work and that
one of my real strengths was arranging tunes.

He has let me make some small changes to his stuff and he's
finding that these changes make sense when a song is too
short or long, or when you want to add interest in the lead
sections or bridges. Or tighten an ending.

I kind of took it one step at a time and now he's comfy with
it. Its not carte blanche, but his stuff is pretty good to begin
with.

 

[Wissen]

a few questions -

so I assume it's all original material
who wrote it? just the keyboard player?
did they give you charts for the bass lines or
are you writing the bass parts?
How will the song credits play out?

If you are writing parts and arranging, then you have serious input and should get credits for your input. IMO
A group effort in the arrangements works well if you can get there.

good luck!

Right now it's just a keyboardist/singer and a drummer. They would like to find a guitarist and another keyboard player because the singer would rather concentrate on just singing/frontman stuff. He is the sole creative force behind songs for melody/chords - the drummer just comes up with a beat that fits the song.

In our one session together, they just asked me to play along, no bass charts provided. I did so by basically just following the guy's left hand, because this was the first time I'd heard any of their stuff. I have certainly been given license to develop my own lines, but I don't expect any kind of songwriting credit for it.

I love the input. Keep the stories coming!

 

[Geddyfleaharris]

I kind of took it one step at a time.

I think the above statement is the key. Unless they realize right away that you are musically ahead of them, then coming in and immediately trying to change the band will probably create a sour taste in their mouths. IMO the way to go is to get comfortable with the guys and the songs and then start dropping suggestions. It should be better received once you have been around awhile.

However, the caveat being I think you have to be up front about what you want to achieve muscially so there are no surprises. That's what I did with the last band that I was with. When I joined I told them up front where I was and what I wanted to achieve. They said ya, ya, ya but after 2 years in the band and the last 8 months of being on the opposite side of a lot of decisions I realized it was time for me to go. My goals didn't mesh with their goals anymore.