Recommend a multi-tasking tube amp?

[keyofnight]

Hey folks!

I'm selling some stuff that is worth a pretty penny, and so I might be in a position to buy an amp soon—preferably a tube amp. I'm not sure what to buy, but I have a few thoughts:

• I want the amp to sound good with a few different instruments: bass, guitar, and synthesizer. (My synths produce sub-bass.)
• I don't need it to be high-wattage—50-100W is fine. 50-75W is better. I don't gig, and I don't pretend that I will. It has been 15 years, I haven't done more than jam with friends. I've gotten excellent results with a 35W Blackface Fender hooked up to an extremely efficient bass cab (a BFM Jack 210 with Eminence Basslite S2010s).
• Speaking of results: I love the Fender Sparkle™. I crave treble in my bass sound—I've gotta hear those overtones.
• I don't need it to be all-tube, but I definitely prefer a solid-state preamp with a tube power amp over a solid-state power amp with a tube preamp.
• I use pedals for overdrive and heavy fuzz/distortion. An amp that can take pedals well is ideal.
• It would be nice to have recording features, like a line-out or DI out. This is not a deal-breaker, though.
• My budget is about $1300, but it would be nice to come under $1000.

I have a few candidates in mind:

• Fender Bassman 100T. This is more modern than I thought I could afford, but I see them used on reverb for about $1000. I worry about the auto-biasing circuits, and I worry about how long it'll last.
• Blackface/Silverface Bassman. If I'm thinking about getting a bassman, part of me figures I should just get the real deal.
• Music Man 65. This uses a solid state rectifier and preamp section with a tube phase inverter (on older models) and output section. I really like how clean these sound. I also like how inexpensive these remain.
• Sunn 200S. I hear this is an excellent, no-muss, no-fuss amp. The wiring layout also looks simple-ish for repairs. It also sounds clean as hell.
• Ampeg V-2. To be honest, I don't know a whole lot about these beside they're the little brother to the V-4(b), and that they…were used by or sound like the Rolling Stones, I guess? (I'm not a Stones fan, so I never tried to verify this.) All of the demos I've heard sounded good, so I'm open to it.

Are there any other amps I should consider? Which one should I choose? Which one would you choose if you were me?

(BASS.)

 

[Michael Schreiber]

I want the amp to sound good with a few different instruments: bass, guitar, and synthesizer.

And this is, where I think the quest might become endless.
I have a V-4B and have been surprised, how cool also (non-bass) guitars do sound through them.
Yet, the amp is only one part of the story - the spakers/cabs are also part of the equation.
For instance, I could never emulate the mid magic happening in my 12" Celestions with the 210AVs I have.
For that reason, I used to bi-amp even my bass.

So, it really depends on what sounds you want to achieve.

On one hand, even if you'd only be after a clean instrument sound; bass, guitar (and full range synths) occupy different places of the frequency spectrum. That is why you, IMHO, might be better off with (overdrive etc.) pedals to tickle out the best of each instrument, and a (neutral) full range solution to bring that sound to your ears - as alternative to having a separate rig for each instrument. For example, if I aimed at that, I'd look for a used Glockenklang rig - and also look for alternatives.

On the other hand, it might sound exceptionally cool using, say, a V-4B + the same cabs for all instruments.
Just saying: What I wrote above is just my impression - please keep in mind that I went the other route; I do have different amps/cabs for bass and guitar, and a small PA (which could be used for synths). Yet, that doesn't mean that this would suit your needs, as well.

Hope this aphorism helps a bit
Anyway, much success and much fun playing! \m/

 

[coreyfyfe]

The modern bassman 100T is probably the best option on that list. Has the low power options, classic scooped fender and active eq channels.

Vintage bassman can be found cheaper, so could a lot of other vintage options. Dealing with restoration, repairs, etc is something to consider. Music man would definitely do big trebly cleans for sure. I’d also look for other older amps, maybe old PA amps - fender, traynor, etc.

If you’re thinking V2 it would probably be easier to find a V4 or B25B. The V series adds the midrange circuit and much more flexible OT but the V2/VT40 also runs the power tubes harder than a V4.

Sunn can work. Big cleans in the output stage. An old sound city maybe too, grindy input stage but big and punchy and lots of treble.

 

[Korladis]

Ampeg V4B or V4. Or PF-50T.

Fender Bassman 100T.

Old Sunns are cool, but be advised that to my knowledge they predate things like DIs and effects loops.

 

[deathness]

Not a bad choice on your list. Try them and all and see what calls to you. You have the budget to let your heart decide. I will say everything sounds great thru my sunn sorado (same amp as the 200s): bass, guitar, keys, vox. Sounds like you got the good kinda problem.

 

[deathness]

To echo a point @coreyfyfe made, if you go vintage, add $100-200 to the sale price bc you should take it to a qualified tech for a tune up if you don't have the experience to do it yourself. Paid $400 for my sorado. Another $90 in the shop and it's been running great for the last year and a half played loud almost every day.

 

[keyofnight]

And this is, where I think the quest might become endless.

Yeah, it's possible there is no amp that can play all of these roles perfectly. You might be right: a Glockenklang, Vanderkley, or similar amp might work. I just have never heard anyone run guitar through these amps. The thing is… I kind of aspire to use my bass the way some people use their guitars. I don't use onboard preamp/EQs or pickup blends, I like to use my volume knob to control the breakup of my overdrive, I prefer pickup selectors, and I love a treble sound with reduced mids. I've had good luck with guitar amps, for sure, as long as they don't limit bass frequencies.

The modern bassman 100T is probably the best option on that list. Has the low power options, classic scooped fender and active eq channels.

Sunn can work. Big cleans in the output stage. An old sound city maybe too, grindy input stage but big and punchy and lots of treble.

Thanks for the advice. I'll think about the V4 instead. BTW, I had a Sound City 120 at some point. It had a beautiful sound to it—deep but sharp—and the controls were very useful. But… it was a big pita. I spent so much time with that amp wondering, "When is the mains hum gonna come back randomly?" or "Are these tubes getting too hot?" I should've gotten the older SC 50 or SC 100, but now I'm a little over the SC amps.

 

[keyofnight]

Not a bad choice on your list. Try them and all and see what calls to you. You have the budget to let your heart decide. I will say everything sounds great thru my sunn sorado (same amp as the 200s): bass, guitar, keys, vox. Sounds like you got the good kinda problem.

That's great to hear. The 200s, Sorado, Spectre, and similar amps seem like the right choice. They seem simple, clean, reliable, and serviceable. Does your Sorado have a GZ34? If so, does it ever "sag" when you play? Also… is it ever noisy?

To echo a point @coreyfyfe made, if you go vintage, add $100-200 to the sale price bc you should take it to a qualified tech for a tune up if you don't have the experience to do it yourself. Paid $400 for my sorado. Another $90 in the shop and it's been running great for the last year and a half played loud almost every day.

Cool. So, I'm trying to avoid buying unserviced amps. I've been burned before. I would likely something it from my local shop who services amps before they sell them. (I take my amps to them for repair too, and they do good work from what I can tell.) I might buy online, but I'm gonna try to only buy serviced amps from sellers who post gutshots (and maybe receipts from their repair shop).

 

[ahc]

You may also want to consider a MusicMan HD-130. It's got a half power switch for 65 watts. I gigged mine for years with no problems at all and still have it.

 

[deathness]

That's great to hear. The 200s, Sorado, Spectre, and similar amps seem like the right choice. They seem simple, clean, reliable, and serviceable. Does your Sorado have a GZ34? If so, does it ever "sag" when you play? Also… is it ever noisy?

My sorado does have the tube rectifier (the bottle says 5ar4 but i think it's essentially the same tube as the gz34). I've contemplated converting to ss which I will likely do when I bring it in for service some time in the next year or two, but my reasons are more for reliability versus sound. I don't notice any sag. My backup is a 70s concert bass so I feel like I would notice. Someone did mod the amp with a filter choke which based on my research is supposed to give it a bit more low end and headroom. Maybe it makes a difference, maybe it doesn't. I just know it's a big clean sounding amp for a low watter until it isn't (about 5/6 without effects, about 3/4 with a lot of effected signal) and then once it overdrives it sounds great too. My main basses are passive but they are very hot signals (70s guild humbuckers) compared to more common passive pups which might effect the break-up points on the amp, too.

There's a bit of hum to it, but not enough to bother me. Beyond that, there's no noise to it. When overdriven it compresses down pretty savagely (I mean that in a good way). Prior to breakup, the sound is pretty lively and dimensional if that makes sense.

I love the Sunn, but I wouldn't hesitate at a vintage bassman or b-25b/v-4 if funds weren't an issue and it was properly maintained/decent shape. All great sounding amps. The music man is an interesting amp, but it's my understanding that it's designed to run the tubes pretty hard. Plus, I like a tube in the preamp somewhere where it can make some difference. That's just me. I haven't had a go at the new bassman, but it looks super cool and has a great feature set if you need it. I prefer my amps caveman-simple for my caveman-simple brain.

 

[rodl2005]

I'd still say the 100T as the 2 Channels give you so much versatility. The Vintage channel is the old Bassman with pull bright and deep switches. The drive channel is basically an active eq channel with the added option of drive if you want it.
I've got the Super Bassman... the 300w version.... I've had zero issues in the 6 yrs I've had it...

They Ampeg PF50T would be another feast choice

 

[zorf]

Fender PA 100 or PA135

 

[Korladis]

Yeah, it's possible there is no amp that can play all of these roles perfectly. You might be right: a Glockenklang, Vanderkley, or similar amp might work. I just have never heard anyone run guitar through these amps. The thing is… I kind of aspire to use my bass the way some people use their guitars. I don't use onboard preamp/EQs or pickup blends, I like to use my volume knob to control the breakup of my overdrive, I prefer pickup selectors, and I love a treble sound with reduced mids. I've had good luck with guitar amps, for sure, as long as they don't limit bass frequencies.



Thanks for the advice. I'll think about the V4 instead. BTW, I had a Sound City 120 at some point. It had a beautiful sound to it—deep but sharp—and the controls were very useful. But… it was a big pita. I spent so much time with that amp wondering, "When is the mains hum gonna come back randomly?" or "Are these tubes getting too hot?" I should've gotten the older SC 50 or SC 100, but now I'm a little over the SC amps.

That's actually exactly the way I use my bass's controls when playing through my Mesa D-180.

The way I have my main bass set up (a Rickenbacker 4003S), the bridge pickup is raised high so that it distorts the amp quite a bit, whereas my neck pickup is lower output and lowered down so that the drive is reduced to a sort of light grit, just a little fatness.

Works perfectly. On my single pickup Peavey, I just use the volume knob. Not quite as quick a switch, but it works.

 

[keyofnight]

I sold the gear I wanted to sell, and my budget isnt as high as I want it to be. Still pretty good though. So: I found a good condition, well-serviced Sunn 200s and made an offer on it. [That should leave me with enough budget to get my dream dirt pedal too. ]

I hope I made the right decision.

Thanks, y'all!

 

[keyofnight]

…aaaaand I crapped out. I ordered a Sunn 200s, and UPS destroyed it in shipping. They dropped it so hard that they bent the output transformer lugs. We've got a claim opened up, I'm getting my money back, and now I'm on the hunt for another amp again. :/

 

[deathness]

That makes me heart hurt

 

[BrianToska]

I have a Music Man 65 and I absolutely love it for bass and guitar. You won’t have the DI or and of those other modern features though. The tone on this amp is so good that my band actually used it for bass and guitar on a lot of tracks on our new album. Can’t recommend it enough.

 

[coreyfyfe]

…aaaaand I crapped out. I ordered a Sunn 200s, and UPS destroyed it in shipping. They dropped it so hard that they bent the output transformer lugs. We've got a claim opened up, I'm getting my money back, and now I'm on the hunt for another amp again. :/

I can understand being hesitant to keep it after a drop/damage but it might be worth having a tech check out the amp and see if they can get it running. How was the head box? Any other damage?

 

[keyofnight]

I can understand being hesitant to keep it after a drop/damage but it might be worth having a tech check out the amp and see if they can get it running. How was the head box? Any other damage?

The head box was fine. I checked the circuit myself for more damage, and the output transformer's ground was severed. Nothing else seemed amiss. I could've repaired it myself, if I had a means of draining the filter caps. But I'm just not sure the transformers' life will be shorter now. I kinda don't want to risk it. The amp seller was onboard with refunding the money necessary to get it repaired, but… it seems like fate is trying to tell me something, you know?

 

[keyofnight]

I'm seriously thinking about going with a Portaflex PF-50t. I really dig the feature-set: the accessible tube bias control, a 12au7 for the phase inverter (easily found), a DI from the output transformer, the ability to run the head without a cabinet, much lighter weight, etc. It seems like the right kind of amp for me.