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Recommend an overhead drum mic for live recording

Rockin Mike

Rockin Mike

May 27, 2011
2,772
424
#1
I've come to learn that when recording the band live, more drum mics = more bleed. I want to cut down to just three: kick, snare, and a single overhead.

Do you have a favorite overhead mic for recording drums while the band is going?
I've been using an SM57, just wondering if there's anything better.
Reducing bleed is a major goal, as is picking up the toms.
All else being equal, I'd prefer dynamic over condenser to avoid fiddling with phantom power. Everything else onstage is dynamic.
Not too worried about the cymbals, they come through everywhere :)

Thanks for your ideas!
 
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#3
seamonkey said:
Just one good omni
YMMV but seems to work here and here
Click to expand...


That guy has great dynamics. Good drummer and I agree they are getting a good capture with omnidirectional mics.

I'm in a different situation, though. I'm recording with the whole band playing in a dive bar, a guitar amp 2 feet from the snare drum, vocal monitors and the mains echoing off the back wall are all getting picked up by the drum mics.

The problem this creates is, let's say I get the lead singer's track EQ'ed and reverbed just right, then I unmute the drum mics and every one of them has lead vocal in it (as well as guitar and bass) so when I make an adjustment to a drum track, it affects the volume, tone, and space (reverb & echo) of the lead vocal.

I know, gates can be used to filter out a little unwanted low-level background noise, but when you're talking about a full on rock band with everything bleeding into everything else gating is just not up to the job. Or else I'm not a good enough engineer to do it right. Advice is always welcome.

Maybe the best way is to forget about drum overheads altogether. The cymbals will bleed into the drummer's vocal mic, and every other mic onstage, and the little clipon mics for the toms might give enough volume differential between the tom and the bleed that it could be effectively gated.

I'm just guessing and thinking out loud, anyone's good ideas and experience are welcome.
 
#4
What's the goal of your recording? If you're trying to leave listeners gobsmacked with your super polished, mega-rock, ear-candy recording, then you might need to put up enough mics to allow you to replace voices in overdub/re-tracking/drum triggering sessions.

OTOH, if you only (or even mostly) want a live document, a more restrained approach would make more sense. In that case, a stereo recording from 10-12' above the dance floor can work well, depending on crowd noise and the available rigging points.

As a middle ground, a few mics on kit can offer a safety net. For example, I've recorded kick, snare top, and hats just to have options when mixing pretty minimalist live recordings. Those mics don't all have to go into the FOH during the gig.
 
#7
EastCoastThump said:
What's the goal of your recording? If you're trying to leave listeners gobsmacked with your super polished, mega-rock, ear-candy recording, then you might need to put up enough mics to allow you to replace voices in overdub/re-tracking/drum triggering sessions.

OTOH, if you only (or even mostly) want a live document, a more restrained approach would make more sense. In that case, a stereo recording from 10-12' above the dance floor can work well, depending on crowd noise and the available rigging points.

As a middle ground, a few mics on kit can offer a safety net. For example, I've recorded kick, snare top, and hats just to have options when mixing pretty minimalist live recordings. Those mics don't all have to go into the FOH during the gig.
Click to expand...

Goal is to create good sounding demos and CDs to get us into better clubs, and something to put in the family album for the grandkids.

For the first part, the checkpoint is that it needs to be on the "better or best" side of what club owners are used to hearing in amateur demos.

I'm thinking about just running mics on the kick, one for the snare/hi-hat, and one hypercardioid overhead like an Audix OM2, and triggers on the toms. I don't think the triggers will pick up any bleed and I can paste in whatever drum sound is needed in Studio One. And of course 4 vocal mics, 1 guitar mic, and DI from the bass.
 
#8
You know your repertoire, gear, and personnel; so if it seems like a good plan to you, it probably is.

FWIW, if I wanted to get a particularly polished sounding "live" demo from a new band, I'd do a few things differently. If you're already triggering toms, then even a single overhead can be useful to give you the crash and ride. (You can use this track either w/ aggressive HPF to give you just the upper end of the cymbals, or just to give you a better visual reference if you end up replacing cymbals in your DAW.) BTW, hypercardoid wouldn't be my choice for this; a wider pattern would work better, unless your drummer sets up crash and ride together and those tins are all you're trying to capture. For a conventional kit set-up, I'd go with a small-diaphragm condenser mic for a lone overhead or a pair of them for stereo OHs.

I'd also want a separate hats mic, b/c there's often a lot of the groove's pulse there, as well as clever rhythm accents if your drummer's so inclined. Then you have your triggered toms, the option of replacing crash/ride, and close mics on kick, snare, and hats. You won't get anything like an organic sounding kit by bringing up those source channels, but you'll have a lot of flexibility to edit, trigger, and mix drums. You'll also have gotten around the worst of your isolation issues with the kit mics (that is, unless the drummer is running a hot monitor wedge).

After that, just place the vocal wedges and guitar amp so that you're not throwing a lot of vocals into the amp mic. That way, you should at minimum have a clean bass DI track, decent isolation on your guitar track, and drum tracks that give you as much isolation as you'll get short of using an electronic set.

Having said all that, unless you've done a bunch of live tracking and mixing, my advice would be not to expect to get great sounding tracks from this effort. You'll be tracking in an environment that involves a lot of sonic compromises. And even in more controlled settings, getting the best results from your mics and mic placements takes time and experience earned through some trial and error.
 
#10
derrico1 That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to pick up 4 triggers for the 3 toms and floor tom, that will cut out a lot of bleed right there, and look for a pair of condensers for the overhead.

A guy I talked to at Sweetwater.com (they are great) recommended Shure PGA181s for overheads and they usually know what they're talking about.

I guess I know where my paycheck from the next few gigs is going!

Another thing I want to do is find a way to get the guitars into the main speakers. Neither guitar nor bass are in the mains so stage volume is higher than it needs to be. Bringing the stage volume down should help a lot with the bleeding. Guitarist owns the 4-channel mixer we're using for mains and monitors and that's only enough for the vocals.
 
#11
ofajen said:
Beyerdynamic M 160 or M 130. 160 is hypercardioid while 130 is figure 8. Both are dynamic, have a very natural sound and will focus on the drums and reject other instruments if pointing down from above the kit.

Otto
Click to expand...

Wow those look great but are priced a bit out of my range. I need something sturdy in the $100 or $200 range that will do an adequate job in the imperfect environment of a live rock gig.
 

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