Double Bass Recording and mixing Slap bass

[sonthebass]

Hello.

Im trying to get an even slap sound out from my bass.
Just tried recording with a Shadow Rockabilly DI so i get 2 signals.
But im getting a lower slap sound from the D & G string then from A & E.

The tension is obviously lower on the A and E string but still, this seems to be a common problem.
Im using the 4 lowest tension strings from Superior Bassworks.

How would you approach this and what are your techniques for making it sound solid in a mix?
And how do you EQ you slap?

Thanks =)

 

[Don Hergert]

I haven't setup a Shadow Rockabilly DI, but I have some questions...

(1) Are you feeding directly into your recording device?

(2) If so, do you have the same problem feeding into an amp as you do the recording device?

(3) Which side of the bridge is the bridge pickup on (bass or treble)?

(4) Is the balance problem you're experiencing while slapping a problem with a musical note stroke or a problem with a slap stroke?

My setup is a Vic's Model C feeding into a K&K Dual Channel Pro ST pre-amp, the strings are the 4 thickest and highest tension Superior BassWorks Deluxe "Dirty Guts" strings. My bridge wing pickup is mounted on the treble side of the bridge, and fingerboard pickup is mounted on the underside of the fingerboard within about 2 inches of the neck joint, centered between the A and D strings. I typically set my pre-amp channel balance at 6:00 for the bridge, 4:00 for the fingerboard. The pre-amp is set with the EQ flat and high for both channels, the gain at about 4:00, and I don't typically change them. I do all my EQ and voicing on my amp or leave it for the FOH.

I do find the fattest "Dirty Guts" strings that I'm using to be very plain-gut like: dark in sound, and the A and E have noticeably faster decay, but for the whole set their volume for pizz, arco and slap is pretty even. I don't have the balance problem you are describing while slapping.

 

[sonthebass]

I haven't setup a Shadow Rockabilly DI, but I have some questions...

(1) Are you feeding directly into your recording device?

(2) If so, do you have the same problem feeding into an amp as you do the recording device?

(3) Which side of the bridge is the bridge pickup on (bass or treble)?

(4) Is the balance problem you're experiencing while slapping a problem with a musical note stroke or a problem with a slap stroke?

My setup is a Vic's Model C feeding into a K&K Dual Channel Pro ST pre-amp, the strings are the 4 thickest and highest tension Superior BassWorks Deluxe "Dirty Guts" strings. My bridge wing pickup is mounted on the treble side of the bridge, and fingerboard pickup is mounted on the underside of the fingerboard within about 2 inches of the neck joint, centered between the A and D strings. I typically set my pre-amp channel balance at 6:00 for the bridge, 4:00 for the fingerboard. The pre-amp is set with the EQ flat and high for both channels, the gain at about 4:00, and I don't typically change them. I do all my EQ and voicing on my amp or leave it for the FOH.

I do find the fattest "Dirty Guts" strings that I'm using to be very plain-gut like: dark in sound, and the A and E have noticeably faster decay, but for the whole set their volume for pizz, arco and slap is pretty even. I don't have the balance problem you are describing while slapping.

1. Yeah im trying to record directly from the shadow DI into my focusrite on the computer.

2. Yeah Kinda the same problem directly into an amp. The slap is higher in volume on the E and A string, i think its because there is more slack in the E and A string.

Im talking about the click slap sound when the string hits the fretboard. the bass notes are even in volume but not the click.

3. I got the wing pickup on the bass side and the fingerboard pickup centered a few centimeter below the neck joint. Have been thinking about moving it to center between G and D instead.

4. its the slap sound, the click that is uneven.

I have the 4 lowest tension SBW strings because i havent taken the step to file out my bridge and nut yet so the thickest ones can fit.


Any tips?

 

[Don Hergert]

One last question: Do you detect this same unbalanced slap stroke volume when playing only acoustically (no amp)? If yes, it's probably a string or string setup related issue. If not, it's more likely a pickup / amp setup related issue.

While the fingerboard pickup is probably your primary concern, you'll probably find that your bridge wing pickup does pick up a fair amount of slap. After testing it on my double bass, I could probably have just gotten a bridge wing pickup; at least the Vic's Model B single wing pickup is sensitive enough to also pick up slap. But I wanted more balancing control and that only comes with both the wing and the fingerboard pickups and a 2 channel pre-amp...

All that said, on my bass the wing pickup was way too boomy on the bass side, so I moved it to the treble side of the bridge. A number of folks here have found the same thing with Vic's as well as a number of wing pickups from other companies. I have a Deuce1 bridge so making that move to test it was pretty simple, and it proved out to be better on the treble side.

I have to wonder if that same change might improve your slap balance, since the bridge pickup does also pick up slap.

Regarding the strings, I ran the "medium" tension D (.105") and G (.095") of the Dirty Guts for a number of years and really liked them. At first I ran them with the highest tension E (.170") and A (.155") but I didn't like the gauge match, so then I moved to Innovation SilverSlaps E and A. That combination worked well for me for about 5 years, by which time I was ready to move to a more old-school plain-gut sound. I wanted to have a full set of plain guts except for the cost, but as an interim change decided to try out for the frist time the fattest and highest tension full set (.170", .155", .130", .105") of the Dirty Guts. I have been extremely happy with this fat highest tension Dirty Guts complete set and will probably stay with them on into the future...

As mentioned this fattest and highest tension Dirty Guts set is dark with noticeably increasing decay from G to E. The gauges are well balanced., and very close to the gauge of the plain gut strings that I had thought about getting (Lenzner). Like the lighter tension Dirty Guts they move a lot of air. They are also noticeably higher tension, probably a little higher tension than the SilverSlaps that I had been using. At least on my bass, for my playing, they are excellent for pizz, arco and slap. (I did have to open my bridge and nut slots slightly, and my fingerboard was already dressed for thick strings.)

But... Everyone's double bass is different, and everyone's sound goals and playing touch are different. If I were in your situation I'd probably try the bridge wing change first. If that didn't help I'd consider some experimenting with the fingerboard pickup location. And if that didn't help I'd consider string changes -- if you prefer a more modern tone, you might want to try Innovation SilverSlaps/Golden Slaps or similar wound synthetics from other companies. Some people are even using Spirocore Solo gauge for slapping. Gollihur Music's Strings section (NFI) is amazing for learning about string options.

I wish you the best as you work out your situation!

 

[AGCurry]

I have to ask: Why would you want to record the pickup signal? The sound of double bass, slapped or not, is almost always best captured by a microphone.

 

[sonthebass]

I have to ask: Why would you want to record the pickup signal? The sound of double bass, slapped or not, is almost always best captured by a microphone.

because im trying stuff out And it doesent help because my slap sound different even unplugged.. I think its the strings

 

[Don Hergert]

I have to say I am a little mystified at how you are knowing that slapping the E and A strings produces different volume than slapping the D and G strings... My slapping strokes usually hit all or most of the strings at the same time, it's often with the middle of my fingers, the heel of my hand, the base of my thumb, or the side of my hand depending on whether I'm doing trips or quads, and there's very little string-aiming that happens during those strokes, but there's a lot of touch control. String aiming for me comes with the musical note strokes.

Can you describe the slap strokes you are using?

 

[sonthebass]

I have to say I am a little mystified at how you are knowing that slapping the E and A strings produces different volume than slapping the D and G strings... My slapping strokes usually hit all or most of the strings at the same time, it's often with the middle of my fingers, the heel of my hand, the base of my thumb, or the side of my hand depending on whether I'm doing trips or quads, and there's very little string-aiming that happens during those strokes, but there's a lot of touch control. String aiming for me comes with the musical note strokes.

Can you describe the slap strokes you are using?

ahh a little missunderstanding. I call it singleslap when i just pull the string and release. Then the string makes a slap sound against the fretboard. thats whats uneeven.

if im doing double slap or trippel with my hand that sound is fine.

 

[Don Hergert]

Ahhh, that makes sense.

And yes, I don't do singleslap, so that's probably why I am not aware of a string volume balance problem with it.

This is a good thread, there are rarely slap-based technical discussions here in TB/DB.

 

[sonthebass]

Ahhh, that makes sense.

And yes, I don't do singleslap, so that's probably why I am not aware of a string volume balance problem with it.

This is a good thread, there are rarely slap-based technical discussions here in TB/DB.

Even when playing fast rockabilly basslines?

 

[Don Hergert]

Well, to be fair, my slapping is probably more subtle than would be done for RaB... I may do a few typically RaB songs, but I would be doing them in more of a bluegrass or old jazz context.

 

[Don Hergert]

An additional note on this regarding the SBW strings...

My impression with using the heaviest and thickest Deluxe Dirty Guts is that they are high enough tension that "SingleSlap" might not be practical, in particular for the D .130" and G .105" strings. I'm still surprised at how high their tension is, at least on my 3/4 DB. The E .170" and A .155" strings might be low enough tension, but they are very fat and may also not be practical because of that.

That's speaking as someone who doesn't "SingleSlap" or expect to, and who probably has relatively wimpy hands due to age, etc.

 

[sonthebass]

An additional note on this regarding the SBW strings...

My impression with using the heaviest and thickest Deluxe Dirty Guts is that they are high enough tension that "SingleSlap" might not be practical, in particular for the D .130" and G .105" strings. I'm still surprised at how high their tension is, at least on my 3/4 DB. The E .170" and A .155" strings might be low enough tension, but they are very fat and may also not be practical because of that.

That's speaking as someone who doesn't "SingleSlap" or expect to, and who probably has relatively wimpy hands due to age, etc.

Im using the four with lowest tension but I dont think the tension is even across the strings. The E and A are very floppy and the D and G are perfect.

Sure playing single slaps on the E and A is fine and on the D and G is fine. But its when i start using 3 string or all string in the same bassline that the problems start.

I just ordered a set of sugarslaps and gonna try if i can mix and match some.

Earlier i had the Gut-a-like Slappers Delight strings wich was even on all strings exept the E wich was horrible, haha

 

[Don Hergert]

I've used the SugarSlaps, they're nice strings. Very nice tone. They had a problem with my custom tailpiece though, so I ended up going back to the SilverSlaps/Dirty Guts mix that I had been using at that time. If you're using a standard tailpiece you shouldn't have problems with them.

To my impression, SugarSlaps are also higher tension than the thinnest 4 of the Deluxe Dirty Guts, fwiw.

 

[sonthebass]

I've used the SugarSlaps, they're nice strings. Very nice tone. They had a problem with my custom tailpiece though, so I ended up going back to the SilverSlaps/Dirty Guts mix that I had been using at that time. If you're using a standard tailpiece you shouldn't have problems with them.

To my impression, SugarSlaps are also higher tension than the thinnest 4 of the Deluxe Dirty Guts, fwiw.

The Sugarslaps didnt sound good on my bass, Maby i got to low string height.
Sounded good when piz but slap was horrible.

So im sticking with the SBW strings for now.