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Recording bass - mic the amp, or go direct?

#22
RevGroove said:
Ah, old faithful!

Okay, you can go lineout from the bass head to the DI, but I would also using a quality DI or pre ( including but definetly not limited to Sansamp BDI, BBE DI100x or BBE DI1000) if at all possible.

I myself prefer to use a Bass/Kick drum mic...if you're using Apex, that would be the Apex 125, but any kick drum mike will do...so would a Shure SM57. If I was miking, I'd close mike the cab with an "instrument mic", and then place the condenser mic some distance away to catch the ambience of the room...follow? I'm probably not explaining it right...but the practice of recording using more than one method and then mixing the sum OR selecting the best sounding track is a good one.

Which 4x10 are you using, the blue covered one or the one painted black?
Click to expand...


Thanks for the great suggstions. I will surely try the mic set up that you outlined, it makes sense and your explanation is pretty clear :cool: . Since I do not own a DI box, I plan on renting a quality DI for this recording. I will look into the ones you mentioned. Hopefully with some trial we will be able to get the sound I am chasing after.

I am using a XC410 - 600 W Bass Cabinet 4x10 inch / Horn. Its the one seen here Invalid Link Removed
It's not the one with the blue carpet on it like my old York 2x10 combo LOL.
 
#23
There's a number of factors that will affect your bass recording.

When you play the bass (while tracking) you are probably near your amp, so you FEEL the bass as well as hear it. No so much through studio monitors.

You can quite often hear the strings acoustically in addition to your amp if you are playing quietly enough. If you like that sound, why not throw a mic on your bass itself, near the strings to pick up the fret noise and the acoustic sound of the bass. Sounds crazy, but it'll sound more like your own instrument.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apex is Yorkville's low-end line... use the best mic you can afford, even if you have to rent one. If you want realistic then you need to capture every aspect of your playing - which is also why I suggest trying to capture the acoustic sound of your bass. You'll also want a good Mic-Pre.

Make sure the mic placement is accurately capturing the sound of your bass cab. An easy way to do this is like this: A) Turn up your bass guitar/amp to its top level. Don't play. You should hear a HISSSssssss B) Get your mic and monitor its input with a set of cans. You will need to get beside your bass cab. C) Move the mic around in front of your bass until the sound you hear in the cans is the same as the sound coming from the amp.

Depending on the room you play in, you will get all sorts of constructive and destructive interferance... some notes will BOOM and some will be very quiet. If you happen to place the MIC in a node then you will be missing some bassey goodness in your recording. The DI signal can help in this case to fill in the low signal from the MIC'ed recording, but won't do anything for the BOOMING notes. Its probably best to mic your cabinet near a wall where all the nodes come together and will probably be the most even.

You could try moving around in the room while a friend plays various notes until you find the most even sounding spot. Put the mic there. You SHOULD find that its near a wall.

If you can't get near a wall, then try the floor. This will at least eliminate the comb filtering that you would experience micing a few feet up. Remember to face the mic in the correct direction.

These are only my ideas, I am not a professional recording engineer but I have played alot with my home recording setup and I've done a lot of reading. Your mileage will vary, and you're sure to get people who disagree with my ideas.

In the end its you who gets to decide on what works and what doesn't. Try it all if you can until you find something that does work.

Good luck and let me know what you find!

- Andrew
 
#24
AndrewShirley said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apex is Yorkville's low-end line... use the best mic you can afford, even if you have to rent one. If you want realistic then you need to capture every aspect of your playing - which is also why I suggest trying to capture the acoustic sound of your bass. You'll also want a good Mic-Pre.
Click to expand...

You asked to be corrected...while not as well known as other brands such as Shure, Audix, Sennheiser, et al, in my opinion these mics hold their own against these and other brands easily, at a fraction of the price. There's better mics, sure, but there's lots worse mics too. Don't knock 'em unless you try or have tried them!
;)

Having said that, again, I wouldn't have used the Apex Condensor in the manner described earlier, but everyone has their own tried and true techniques, do what works for you!
 
#25
spectorbass83 said:
You guys all provided awesome feedback. I am going to rent a DI box and go direct, and I will also mic the amp. I like this idea and hopefully my producer is up for it.
Click to expand...
Don't forget to make sure that the di and mic signals are in phase, nothing kills a good bass tone quicker than out of phase sources. Mics and di's often end up out of phase due to the delay of the sound travelling through the air to the mic, compared with the almost-speed-of-light electrical signal of the di. Easiest thing is just to try flipping the phase on one channel with both faders up and see which phase position sounds best (one will sound much better). If your desk doesn't have phase reversal facilites you can make yourself a phase reversal lead. Just make a short male/female xlr lead with the + and - reversed on one end and then plug it into either the di or mic. Also if you look at the waveforms on a pc you will be able to see if the peaks are aligned. You can delay the di the appropriate number of ms or drag the mic track back in time to match the di.

edit: Another thing to watch for on bass tracks is if for some reason you use plugin processing on one track only (like maybe compressing the di only). The delay of the plugin can move the tracks out of phase again.
 
#26
RevGroove said:
You asked to be corrected...while not as well known as other brands such as Shure, Audix, Sennheiser, et al, in my opinion these mics hold their own against these and other brands easily, at a fraction of the price. There's better mics, sure, but there's lots worse mics too. Don't knock 'em unless you try or have tried them!
;)

Having said that, again, I wouldn't have used the Apex Condensor in the manner descrived earlier, but everyone has their own tried and true techniques, do what works for you!
Click to expand...

Thanks for the "correction" :)

- Andrew
 
#29
My preference is to record direct using a Digitech BP-8 and either a Countryman Type 85 or a Behringer active DI. The BP-8 patches were created by me and are neutral or the clean tube pre with just a touch or room reverb for a little 'air'. In some situations I may use the EQ a bit or use one of the efx but usually it's just plain bass. The only times I mic my amp are when I am recording piccolo bass parts or when I'm using the hollobody Harmony H-22. For that I use either a Polytone MiniBrute III or and old Ampeg B-15 cab puched by a GK400 RB head with a Shure SM-57 pushed up as close to the speaker as I can get it.
 
#33
i usually mic and direct. sometimes if it`s good direct i just leave it! but i have my own rig at home and play with it. experimenting is the key. NEVER let the the guy tell you we`ll get it in the mix. when they tell you that, your usually hosed. matter of fact, it`s an old joke some of me and my buddies use.
 
#34
Futurebass said:
Warning Bassists! Recording engineers are lazy mother****ers and will be happy to compromise your sound for their own laziness. They also have a tendency to think that every bassist has the same intentions and same tone. You must protect your sound because they won't. Be vigilant.
Click to expand...


You Rock :bassist: Also, the best sound I ever got in a studio was a combination of direct/mic. Going only direct just doesn't do it for me, in the studio or on stage.
 
#35
Laziness has little to do with it, although there certainly are plenty of lazy or incompetent mix engineers. A mix engineer is concerned with the overall sound, and if your signature tone sticks out, pegs meters, and stomps all over the rest of the band, than a good engineer will attempt to make it sit better so that the song sounds good. While this may compromise your tone, if the guy knows what he's doing, it will result in solid mix that non-bassists can listen to and enjoy. IME and IMO, of course.
 
#36
I would recommend doing both. Usually when I record I'll mic the cab with two mics and go direct. Then I'll mix them together to find the best sound and bus them to the same channel. Or just mix the two mics, bus them and have a direct channel too. There is also tons that can happen with EQ. You can make some really bad tracks sound pretty nice with the stuff they have nowdays.
 
#37
:rolleyes: Mr. Andrew Shirly up there gave you some good advice about micing your neck. If you have the cab mic'd and you are also feeding direct, micing the neck is a real good way to get some "metal" into the track when you're doin some harder work. I usually do it on my tracks and I've always liked it. Just add a small amount into the cab/direct track, but don't compress the neck mic at all and you will get all kinds of "you" in there. :bassist: Whatever works, just MY experience and two cents. I humbly record at home and have been in a few professional joints, but found lots of "engineers" just cookbooking it up according to some 1 2 3 4 5 step deal. :scowl:
 
#38
Hey guys, I know some of you were asking for me to post some tracks..Unfortunately, we had to start over with our recording due to technical problems with our recording equipment...to be honest I am not that dissapointed that we get to re-record, since I was not happy with my original bass tone to begin with...

This time I will go direct and mic the cab..I will experiment more with mic placement like many here have suggested until I find what works best. I will be using a Peavey Max 700 amp to record. Can I get away with using the XLR output on this amp, or should I rent a DI?

As soon as we have a song recorded I will post it on here and you guys can tear it apart lol :D

Can't wait to commence with the recording process!!
 
#39
I'm amazed so many people have had such negative studio experiences.

I have NEVER miked a bass amp in the studio...always DI'ed and I have never been unhappy with the sound of the basic tracks (the mix, OK that's where you might get sabotaged). It's not the gear as much as the ears of the guy behind the board...Jamerson was DIed for all the Motown stuff.
 
#40
I've tried many different amp DI's to try and get the preamp tone of the amp, but I can honestly say that none of them were really great quality tones that I got, and in fact, most of the time I ended up using the direct line from my bass, or from my GT6B with an amp sim.

I am really happy with the basic tone I get from my bass, so any improvements I look for are only minor, and most of the time ,the amp DIs only muffled or messed with my tone, compared to the direct line...

I would however like to try micing the acoustic sound of my bass while I play, or add a mic'd amp line...
 

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