Recording without an amp in my ears makes me feel miserable, advice needed (long post)

[Hattie]

Hi everyone
I am having troubles with the recordings that I make, and I hope you can give me some advice.

Note that this is (probably) not gear-related, and I wondered whether I should actually have posted this in 'technique', but well - if the post is misplaced, please feel free to move it where it belongs. This issue is also something that I have had a hard time explaining to my fellow bandmates, so you can well imagine how hard it will be for me to describe it in English here on TB. I am still hoping you will grasp the general idea of what I want to explain.

I am not satisfied with both the process and the result of recording myself 100% through DI. DI is not the real problem here, the real problem is that when by bass is recorded 100% through DI, I only hear myself through headphones.

I am in a band with a bass-drums-guitar trio + lead vocals. Note that I have limited knowledge on the technical aspect of recording and mixing, and the ones who lead these are the drummer & the guitar player, since they are actually professionally trained & educated on these subjects. Artistic decisions are taken by the four of us.

Guitar & drums are mic'ed, I go through DI. I would love to add a cab of mine as well, but we cannot, and if DI is good enough for Jamerson, it is more than good enough for me.

99% of the time, when we record, I only have my headphones on - this is where my issues begin. I have no problem with the headphones per se, I understand that having bass all over the drum tracks is less than ideal, and I would rather play with the drummer than we record one after the other (often, for various reasons, this option is not even available to us). Headphones are Beyerdynamics - good gear, not an issue here.

Nevertheless, hearing myself solely through headphones is a big problem for me - all the more when all I hear in the headphones is my bass and I hear everything else (drums, guitar) coming from the room.

It feels to me, and I don't know if this is my being a princess or this is something other players have had issues with, that I am disconnected from my instrument: that the actions of my hands, of my fingers are not replicated in my ears. Simply put, not only do I not hear what I play, I also have the feeling that I almost play a MIDI instrument. This is a very strange feeling.

This results in, in pretty much all cases, my playing like crap. Even if I am aware of the problem and I try and play accordingly, even if I crank the volume of the headphones up like mad, I will, 100% of the time, over-hit the strings, dig like hell in an attempt to feel that my fingers impact the sound I hear. And it feels like they do not. I could play on the bridge or near the neck, no difference. On the track, my bass has a very imprecise, dirty sound, with no nuances at all and a lot of fret buzz.

I am not the most delicate or precise of players, but the difference between this and when we record with the bass amp on (this happenend a couple of times) is so stark that I have come to the conclusion that only hearing myself through headphones is the issue.

This strikes me especially when other instruments are playing at the same time, and I hear them 'outside', as in, not in my headphones: I have noticed that, on the rare occasions when we recorded the drums first, and I hear both my bass and the recorded drums in the headphones, the discomfort is still very much present, but it is lessened a bit. I still play badly, but I do not feel as disconnected to my instrument as in the first case, since everything feels on the same 'audio plane'. It still does not feel great.

The guitarist & drummer did not undestand when I tried and explain this. The singer actually sort of did, I think, maybe because our headphones situations are rather similar - but she can still feel her voice coming out of her body, and I do not feel anything coming out of my bass. As if I were playing in the air.

All in all, this is making me feel rather sad, and this is why I wrote here after many months of trying to just bite the bullet and move on.

I am not looking for arguments to persuade my bandmates to let me have an amp on when we record. Instead, I am looking to see first if I am the only one experiencing this, and second if you guys had some advice to give me in order to help me getting used to only hearing myself through headphones.

I am trying to adapt, and to manage to play well in these conditions. So, if you have anything to recommend me - bass technique, meditation, anything, I will be eternally grateful!

Feel free to tell me to stop whining and just deal with it if this is what you think.

-Hat

 

[AceOfBassFace]

What you're describing does indeed sound like a really odd and uncomfortable way to record. Is there a reason the engineer can't turn up the rest of the band in your headphone mix? If they know what they're doing they should be able to do this – it's pretty much standard practice. Seems like a really weird way of recording to just have your own instrument in the phones and nothing else.

Bass sounds best recorded DI in my experience. Engineers prefer it too, they get the cleanest signal that way, and there's no muddy bass frequencies bleeding in through the other instrument mics. if your amp is a key part of your sound, then you can use it but it would need to be acoustically isolated from the rest of the band.

If you want to feel the bass through your body, you could try a tactile transducer - these just create the low frequency vibrations either through your strap or by standing on it on the floor:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
BackBeat - Play Bass, Feel Bass

 

[2saddleslab]

Recording is certainly a different beast compared to a live performance or band rehearsal.

The studio makes it a more antiseptic process. Nuance & dynamics are harder to experience wearing headphones and you spend more time adjusting to that than laying down the best bass track. Been there, done that.

My only advise is to do your best and adapt to the new process, like learning what & how you play translates when recorded. A little trial & error, which is necessary in any studio, should help you replicate what's in your head, or the tone you ultimately want. The more studio time you experience, the more you will learn what works best.

Good luck!

 

[Hattie]

Hi, @AceOfBassFace, thanks a lot for your reply!

When we record all together, the guitar amp is usually rather isolated from the rest of us, so I might get some guitar in the headphones. Often though, it's just the drummer & me. The thing is, our recording space is super small, so I don't need to hear anything else but my sound in the headphones to feel already overwhelmed. The drums (and sometimes the guitar amp in the closet) are so loud on their own, I cannot even imagine adding them in the headphones. Most of the time I am having a hard time even hearing my bass in the headphones.

How do bass players do this, in a "standard/ideal" setting? Do they have enough space between the musicians so they can all have a mix of the whole band in their headphones, or do they have a small isolated cab as a monitor?

 

[Hattie]

The studio makes it a more antiseptic process. Nuance & dynamics are harder to experience wearing headphones and you spend more time adjusting to that than laying down the best bass track. Been there, done that.

My only advise is to do your best and adapt to the new process, like learning what & how you play translates when recorded. A little trial & error, which is necessary in any studio, should help you replicate what's in your head, or the tone you ultimately want. The more studio time you experience, the more you will learn what works best.
Good luck!

Thank you. I know the more I record, the less strange and uncomfortable it will feel. I just feel rather jealous of drummers & guitarists, who get to record in pretty much the same conditions as live. They get to spend their recording time discussing colour and EQ details and licks and mic placement and I sit there trying just to figure out how to play something bearable, with the only thing I can tweak being the volume I get in my headphones...

It comforts me to know that others have also spent more time adjusting to headphones than laying down their best track

 

[AceOfBassFace]

How do bass players do this, in a "standard/ideal" setting? Do they have enough space between the musicians so they can all have a mix of the whole band in their headphones, or do they have a small isolated cab as a monitor?

There are a couple of ways I've done this:

1) With the full band playing together in the same room, guitar and bass amps isolated in separate rooms, vocals in an isolated booth. We could hear the drums bleeding through, but our headphone mixes had everything we needed. It helps if you can see the other musicians too. You need a large room to get everyone set up like this, a pro studio should be able to do this.

2) Overdubbing just the bass: Could be an actual drum track, or a roughed in drum machine, scratch vocals etc. I just lay down the bass tracks. I've had about 20 years of experience playing in studios so it's just second nature now. Once the actual tracks have been recorded, I'll occasionally choose to redo the bass to make it fit better with the rest of the instruments in the performance. Usually with this method it all comes together in the mix, but sometimes lacks that special magic of laying down tracks live with a full band.

Here's what I'd do if I was in your situation:
With your limitations of only having a small room, what I'd recommend is to record a rough guide track along with the guitars, drums, vocals (or whatever it may be), using only the DI (no amp). Don't worry too much at this stage on your performance, just try to get it close. Then get a nice headphone mix happening, adjust your bass tone how you like it and overdub a final bass track if necessary. Recording with just DI or both DI and amp is what is generally done, then combined to taste in the mix.

 

[Hattie]

Here's what I'd do if I was in your situation:
With your limitations of only having a small room, what I'd recommend is to record a rough guide track along with the guitars, drums, vocals (or whatever it may be), using only the DI (no amp). Don't worry too much at this stage on your performance, just try to get it close. Then get a nice headphone mix happening, adjust your bass tone how you like it and overdub a final bass track if necessary. Recording with just DI or both DI and amp is what is generally done, then combined to taste in the mix.

This is precious advice for me, thank you very much! I think this is how I'll do from now on - or at least, whenever I can.
Cheers

 

[I am Soma]

There are a couple of ways I've done this:

1) With the full band playing together in the same room, guitar and bass amps isolated in separate rooms, vocals in an isolated booth. We could hear the drums bleeding through, but our headphone mixes had everything we needed. It helps if you can see the other musicians too. You need a large room to get everyone set up like this, a pro studio should be able to do this.

2) Overdubbing just the bass: Could be an actual drum track, or a roughed in drum machine, scratch vocals etc. I just lay down the bass tracks. I've had about 20 years of experience playing in studios so it's just second nature now. Once the actual tracks have been recorded, I'll occasionally choose to redo the bass to make it fit better with the rest of the instruments in the performance. Usually with this method it all comes together in the mix, but sometimes lacks that special magic of laying down tracks live with a full band.

Here's what I'd do if I was in your situation:
With your limitations of only having a small room, what I'd recommend is to record a rough guide track along with the guitars, drums, vocals (or whatever it may be), using only the DI (no amp). Don't worry too much at this stage on your performance, just try to get it close. Then get a nice headphone mix happening, adjust your bass tone how you like it and overdub a final bass track if necessary. Recording with just DI or both DI and amp is what is generally done, then combined to taste in the mix.

100% on the overdubbing. Even in a small space its nice to have your focus on who's take it is (i.e. drums first). Everyone else gets overdubs after and it really helps with less pressure of everyone thinking they need to get their take at one time

 

[bbh]

Sounds like you are bypassing the que mix. If you don’t have one built in to your daw, you can set up an aux channel just for that. So research que mix. Good luck.

 

[FatBoutedGirls]

Sounds like your headphones aren’t isolating enough, try something that seals better like an in-ear monitor style. That should also help you hear the lows. Overdubbing bass is a great solution too.

 

[Crater]

Guitar & drums are mic'ed, I go through DI.

What KIND of D.I.? If you're just using a basic "clean" D.I., you're just hearing your "flat" bass tone, that's usually not satisfying to most players. This is what a 'SansAmp Bass D.I.' is made for, to provide the tone of a mic'd up bass amp in a D.I.. With decent headphones and a decent DI, it shouldn't be much trouble to dial in a satisfying bass tone.

Simply put, not only do I not hear what I play, I also have the feeling that I almost play a MIDI instrument. This is a very strange feeling.

This sounds like a LATENCY problem during recording. That's a small delay between when the computer recording system "hears" a sound to when it plays back in your headphones. This may be a problem with signal routing and monitoring with the recording software (D.A.W.). The recording engineer should take care of this, you need to hear your direct "live" signal, not the playback signal.

 

[JKos]

This sounds like a LATENCY problem during recording.

That's I was thinking that, as well. Start introducing too much latency in the monitoring and you start feeling disconnected from your own playing.

Some thoughts. Figure out how to provide yourself a zero latency bass signal that sounds good to you. This doesn't have to be the same signal being recorded.

As mentioned above, perhaps add some tactile feedback like a Backbeat.

 

[amper]

Headphones are Beyerdynamics - good gear, not an issue here.

That is not anywhere near enough information to judge by. Beyerdynamics makes a lot of different kinds of headphones. There are a couple of factors you need to consider:

1. The type of headphone design, not the brand. For tracking purposes, you really need to have closed-back headphones. There is a reason why the Sennheiser HD280Pros and Sony MDR-7506s are recording studio staples for tracking. Beyerdynamic may indeed offer similar models, but it is not at all clear that you are using one of them.

2. The impedance match between the headphones and the headphone amp matters and may affect the output level of the headphones. This is not often a big problem, but it is something to consider. Good studio headphones and good studio headphone amps are easily capable of producing dangerous SPLs. If yours aren’t, something is wrong.

 

[GlassToMouth]

The BackBeat like a previous poster mentioned is amazing. Yes, it's somewhat pricey. But other than a quality bass that's well setup, it's the single piece of gear I own that contributes to my actual improved performance. Countless amps, basses, pedals, gadgets, etc in 25+ years of playing, and this is a standout piece of gear for me. I practice 99% of the time through headphones and often gig with IEM's. It allows me to have a much more expressive and dynamic touch. As well as rely less on a thumping stage rig to get the juices flowing. It certainly can bridge the disconnect between amp-ampless playing that I had to adjust to. Now I feel naked without it.

 

[Hattie]

Hi everyone, thanks for all your replies and happy new year to you! 2021 couldn't come soon enough.

I have heard of the Backbeat, but the price is high and I don't really want to invest in other systems while I still have some way to adapt to the ones already available to me, if it makes any sense.

The DI we use is the BSS AR 133 (not 100% sure tough, there may be other models of this brand I am unaware of, but at least the DI we use looks exactly the same). I could bring my TH500 head too and use its direct input, but I assumed the dedicated BSS DI should be better. I way be wrong, what do you think?

I did think about latency as well, but I am pretty sure it is always optimised. This is such a basic thing to consider, I really cannot imagine that the guys would fail to set it right.

We have closed back headphones, but when we record together at the same time they are not enough to isolate the sound coming from the room. This really is a matter of space, I guess, our room is small. But I took note of privileging overdubbing whenever we can!

 

[JRA]

This really is a matter of space, I guess

it is a matter of the space inside your head! the 'disconnection' you're experiencing can be remedied/attenuated with:
- a competent, preferential headphone mix (see your engineers for that).
- attenuation/isolation of ambient/room noise (drums, guitar, etc., see your engineers for that).
- lots of experience/practice on your part --- listening to yourself and others via headphones.
- letting go of your 'fear/loathing' of the process and embracing the recording process for what it is (attitude change).
- knowing the parts so well that you don't really need to hear much of yourself, to begin with (competence and confidence).

good luck with your recording project --- i hope that you'll share some of your efforts!

 

[Hattie]

- a competent, preferential headphone mix (see your engineers for that).
- attenuation/isolation of ambient/room noise (drums, guitar, etc., see your engineers for that).
- lots of experience/practice on your part --- listening to yourself and others via headphones.
- letting go of your 'fear/loathing' of the process and embracing the recording process for what it is (attitude change).
- knowing the parts so well that you don't really need to hear much of yourself, to begin with (competence and confidence).

Taking note of that. Thank you!