Regarding short vs long scale basses...

[ToneMaven]

...just for fun, what if I made this statement:

Short scale basses have a massive sound with fat lows unique from long-scale basses. I can prove it easily. Play an E on the 12th fret of the low E string. Then, play the same note on the 7th fret of the A string. While the pitches are the same, the timbre is different. The E played on the 12th fret of the low E string is darker than the E played on the A string, which is due to the shorter length of string resonating in that position. So, because of their reduced scale length, short-scale basses are inherently darker and, arguably, richer in tone than long-scale basses.

What would you say about that? Agree? Disagree? Why?

 

[Gnal]

I would disagree only in that your example does not take into account the effect of string gauge.

other then that I don’t really have an opinion. I’ve played bases from 32” scale to 35” in scale everything can sound good .

 

[ixlramp]

So, because of their reduced scale length, short-scale basses are inherently darker and, arguably, richer in tone than long-scale basses.

A darker tone, less higher harmonics, is less rich by definition. However, i guess you are using the word 'rich' to mean something else. Most people use 'rich' to mean large amounts of higher harmonics.

 

[Volker Kirstein]

...just for fun, what if I made this statement:

Short scale basses have a massive sound with fat lows unique from long-scale basses. I can prove it easily. Play an E on the 12th fret of the low E string. Then, play the same note on the 7th fret of the A string. While the pitches are the same, the timbre is different. The E played on the 12th fret of the low E string is darker than the E played on the A string, which is due to the shorter length of string resonating in that position. So, because of their reduced scale length, short-scale basses are inherently darker and, arguably, richer in tone than long-scale basses.

What would you say about that? Agree? Disagree? Why?

Based on simple physics, and up to a point, yes. Short scales tend to sound "tubbier" than long scales. Uke basses even more so.

But it's not that simple.

Once you start taking string gauge into account, it gets fuzzier.

Furthermore, once the pickup translates that sound to electrical signals, and EQ/amplification take hold, all bets are off.

 

[Flamingo21]

In other words:

Many factors determine the sound/colour of a bass. Scale is one of them.




(We all knew that, didn't we?)

 

[dmt]

...just for fun, what if I made this statement:

Short scale basses have a massive sound with fat lows...because of their reduced scale length, short-scale basses are inherently darker and, arguably, richer in tone than long-scale basses.

What would you say about that? Agree? Disagree? Why?

Right general idea, but I’d take out the word "massive", and like ixlramp mentioned above, "richer" isn’t exactly the right word as it implies ‘more complex’. The short scale sound is actually simpler, but I think you meant richer as in ‘dark, rich chocolate". So, I’d substitute "chocolatey-ier" for richer. Then I’m with you - in general (these things vary bass to bass, of course).

Only problem is, "chocolatey-ier" isn’t a word, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Flamingo21]

Chocolatier?
Choklittisher?
Tchokklerish?

 

[Glenn Johnson]

The reason I posed the question is twofold, the first being:

• Pitch is not the same. The notes are the same, the pitch is one octave higher. So the E played on the 12th fret of the low E string is darker than the E played on the 7th fret of the A string because it is an octave lower, not because the string length is shorter.
• The shorter the string, the higher the pitch. That is why the E note played on the E string at the 12th fret is higher in pitch than the open E, it is vibrating at twice the frequency.
• I won't even bother to mention string gauge for the sake of keeping this short.

The second reason is that this statement is actually published in Sweetwater's inSync online magazine. It is complete nonsense that would have you believing that a bass ukelele can out-thunder a double bass. What annoys me the most is that readers will put faith into articles like this because they come from what should be considered a reliable source. Not so much.

Here's the article: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/long-short-scale-bass-differences-explained/

So the E played on the 12th fret of the low E string is darker than the E played on the 7th fret of the A string because it is an octave lower, not because the string length is shorter.

What??? That is not my understanding of octaves.

 

[dmt]

Pitch:
1. the quality of a sound governed by the rate of vibrations producing it

The unit for measuring the rate of vibrations is typically Hertz (number of cycles per one second)

The lowest note on a 4 string bass guitar in standard tuning is E1. Twelve frets higher brings us up one octave to E2, which is about 82 Hz.

Meanwhile, the open A on the same bass will be A1 (55 Hz, fwiw), and 7 frets higher on the same string will bring us to E2 at (about 82 Hz).

The two notes, E on the 12th fret of the E string and the E on the 7th fret of the A string are the same pitch, E2 82 Hz. The notes are unison, not octave

 

[ToneMaven]

Pitch:
1. the quality of a sound governed by the rate of vibrations producing it

The unit for measuring the rate of vibrations is typically Hertz (number of cycles per one second)

The lowest note on a 4 string bass guitar in standard tuning is E1. Twelve frets higher brings us up one octave to E2, which is about 82 Hz.

Meanwhile, the open A on the same bass will be A1 (55 Hz, fwiw), and 7 frets higher on the same string will bring us to E2 at (about 82 Hz).

The two notes, E on the 12th fret of the E string and the E on the 7th fret of the A string are the same pitch, E2 82 Hz. The notes are unison, not octave

You are correct and to prevent misleading anyone, I've deleted the original post. I need to revisit my position.

 

[dmt]

You are correct and to prevent misleading anyone, I've deleted the original post. I need to revisit my position.

That’s cool.

To the original quote ("Short scale basses have massive lows with a fat lows unique from long scale basses...short scale basses are inherently darker and, arguably, richer in tone than long scale basses), like I said, I couldn’t swallow "massive", but re-reading it, even "fat" I have issue with. Specifically, my MIJ Mustang (a short scale) sounds a little thin to me in comparison to my [full scale] Precision bass; not bad, but on the thin side.

And the "richer" I had to re-define as "chocolates-ier", lol.

But the basic idea is that the short scale brings out less of the upper harmonics and so you hear more of the fundamental note, the bass tone. The tone is simpler but deep. Bassy.

This is of course without getting into all the possible variables involved like construction, pickup placement, pickup type, strings, amplification, etc. My short scale SG bass, in comparison to the MIJ Mustang, was very deep sounding with the stock neck pickup (since replaced with a different pickup). "Massive" wouldn’t necessarily be my word, but it was definitely dark and deep - too deep for my purposes, it turned out. And certainly not thin. But in their own ways, I do think of both basses as "chocolatey".

Meanwhile, I see your basic point that Sweetwater had their marketing guys working hard trying to beef up short scale basses’ reputation. Yeah, they might have gone a bit far with "have massive lows" as an across the board description, etc. But hey, they’re gettin’ paid to move basses

 

[Oatis]

A Mustang PJ has fat lows and a taste of Jazz Bass bite. It can clank.

 

[GIBrat51]

What would I say? Well... I'm tempted to say "Who gives a S...", but, based on the responses to similar Long vs. Short scale threads? Lots of people seem to do so. Quite passionately, too. So, I guess I'll just say - personally, I don't really care, one way or the other. I have several of both; they sound like what they are - bass guitars. I didn't buy a Gibson Thunderbird or a Dano Longhorn because of their scale length. I bought them because they're a Thunderbird and a Longhorn. Yeah, they do sound different (D-uhh). I would be amazed if they didn't; but, I seriously doubt the scale length has much to do with it...

 

[bearfoot]

Yes, you're right AFAIK. Shorter scale basses have that greater fundamental, and less overtone.

The only opinion you gave was describing the tone as "richer". Some would say the longer scale is a richer tone.

 

[ole Jason]

Makes very little difference in the context of a mix. Funny how you never really see guitar players talking about how longer scales 'sound' different. They generally only discuss scale length in terms of how the feel changes, or more particularly, how the tension of lower strings change. Same with upright players, there is really no standard scale length for upright.

 

[sikamikanico]

A better simulation is to simply detune your bass and adjust fretting. Every half step is about 2” of scale. A bass detuned full step (D standard) will sound sort of like a 30” bass (starting from the second fret to adjust for pitch; you could capo there).

the problem with comparing e fretted at the 12th fret on the E string vs 7th fret on the A string is that the relative position of the pickup moved quite substantially in the process. Although this fretting trick works quite well to emulate a short scale with just technique adjustment on the fly.

But either way, yeah, short scale basses do sound somewhat deeper (not sure if that’s better or not); but I think the key advantage of short scale basses is that they play differently. That influences the music itself (technique, speed, note selection, etc), and partially the sound too (via technique). That can be a powerful addition to a collection (tho personally I would not use a short scale as my primary bass, unless I had physical limitations).

 

[ixlramp]

String stiffness is determined by construction of course, but is also affected by the gauge relative to the vibrating length.
Assuming a short scale bass is using the same gauges, the shorter vibrating length results in higher stiffness, which dampens the higher harmonics, and also causes more 'inharmonicity' (harmonics more out of tune with the fundamental), so less clarity.

The E played on the 12th fret of the low E string is darker than the E played on the A string, which is due to the shorter length of string resonating in that position.

This is not a good simulation, because not only has the vibrating length shortened, the gauge has increased too, causing even more stiffness. sikamikanico above explains a better simulation.

 

[rockscott]

I play primarily shortscale, but I do own both short and long. Shortscales have a bit of a different tone, nothing earth shattering. Cheap shortscales dont sound great, if you want a nice sounding, sweet playing shortscale, you have to go for the higher end instruments. I learned this from experience!

 

[Javibass74]

I play primarily shortscale, but I do own both short and long. Shortscales have a bit of a different tone, nothing earth shattering. Cheap shortscales dont sound great, if you want a nice sounding, sweet playing shortscale, you have to go for the higher end instruments. I learned this from experience!

I just picked up a 32 inch Serek Bass. It came with DR HI Beams (short scale). I’m missing my Elixirs but they only come in long scale. Have you noticed a difference in differing string scale lengths in the basses you play?

 

[jonnybass1]

I just picked up a 32 inch Serek Bass. It came with DR HI Beams (short scale). I’m missing my Elixirs but they only come in long scale. Have you noticed a difference in differing string scale lengths in the basses you play?

You can easily use long scale strings on a 32” scale bass. I have always used long scale strings on my 30” scale basses with no problems.