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Repeating Notes, different pitches

S

SparkyNZ

Nov 24, 2021
8
8
#1
I will start by admitting that I am not a seasoned bass player - but I do record bass riffs and piece my compositions together in Cubase. I have 5 string Ibanez Ergodyne with active pickups.

Something I have noticed today is that when I play the same 2 notes on my E-string, each note is not in tune with the other. Specifically, the second note is always higher. I have my index finger on the 7th fret

I don't think I'm applying more pressure on the fret when I'm playing the second note and instead of alternate picking, I've even tried using the same finger to try and get the same attack and pressure for both notes.

I went through about 10 takes and they're all doing the same thing. I know I can consciously vary my pressure on the second note to lower the note that's produces but I'm just curious to know your thoughts on this. Suppose I should grab a pick and see what happens too..
 
#3
Assuming your fretting finger hasn't moved, the second note cannot be "higher" (in pitch) -- but it might be louder, or you might be holding the note longer (or shorter), or your attack might be different. It's just a matter of practice to make them sound the same. With a pick it's very much the same problem -- i.e. making downstrokes sound the same as upstrokes.
 
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#6
Lobster11 said:
Assuming your fretting finger hasn't moved, the second note cannot be "higher" (in pitch) -- but it might be louder, or you might be holding the note longer (or shorter), or your attack might be different. It's just a matter of practice to make them sound the same. With a pick it's very much the same problem -- i.e. making downstrokes sound the same as upstrokes.
Click to expand...

After work I will through the capo onto the 7th fret and experiment some more. That would rule out my left hand applying different pressure. If I'm recording with a guide track in the background.. maybe I'm subconsciously changing what my picking finger is doing in relation to the background tracks.
 
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#7
SparkyNZ said:
After work I will through the capo onto the 7th fret and experiment some more. That would rule out my left hand applying different pressure. If I'm recording with a guide track in the background.. maybe I'm subconsciously changing what my picking finger is doing in relation to the background tracks.
Click to expand...
Any kind of backing track might make the two notes sound different even if you're playing them the same way. I would try playing without a backing track first to make sure the notes sound the same without any background, and then proceed to figuring out whether you're actually plucking the notes differently or whether they just sound different against the background.
 
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#8
SparkyNZ said:
...
...
Something I have noticed today is that when I play the same 2 notes on my E-string, each note is not in tune with the other. Specifically, the second note is always higher. I have my index finger on the 7th fret
...
Click to expand...

This can't happen in isolation, so it is something you are doing. Are you inadvertently bending the strings as you play? It might be worth checking in a mirror or pointing a video camera at your hand just to see what is going on.
Another possibility is that you are, again unintentionally, pulling back on the neck as you hold each note...
Either way, try loosening your left hand grip...
 
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#9
SteveCS said:
This can't happen in isolation, so it is something you are doing. Are you inadvertently bending the strings as you play? It might be worth checking in a mirror or pointing a video camera at your hand just to see what is going on.
Another possibility is that you are, again unintentionally, pulling back on the neck as you hold each note...
Either way, try loosening your left hand grip...
Click to expand...

It's an illusion. I have some strings playing in the background and these are giving the effect that the bass is shifting pitch. The strings do have a bit of phasing going on and possibly do shift pitch a little.

It's been driving me nuts. For the past hour I've been turning my tuning pegs trying to get in tune with little luck. Once I mute the strings, everything sounds great with the bass.. I put the strings back in and .. yuck. Maybe some panning on the strings will help for now.
 
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#10
I ran into some issues with this a number of years ago with a couple string patches in Reason. My bass was in tune just fine but the patch was a few cents off giving that out of phase sound. We were so adamant about the using those specific string patches. I tried re-intonating my bass for a tempered “Buzz Feiten” tuning and voila.
 
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#13
A tip to check out: When you play a note, there's an attack (few ms of very loud transient), then there's a sounding tone. The sounding tone has some pitch. After about a second, the pitch gets few cents down. The louder you pluck, the bigger the pitch difference. Softer strings probably do it more than stiffer. With longer string lenght, the pitch changes more (at least that's the case when I compare my bass guitar and my double bass).

This is physics thing and at least I can't really hear the difference. Perhaps the ear learns to get used to it when learning to recognize the sounds of instruments? Or, we don't pluck unnecesarilly loud for just this reason? - I've met people who play fast notes when tuning, saying that it helps the tuning presicion.

I'm using this Android tuner, where you can nicely see it.

Don't know whether this helps, but it's interesting.
 
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#14
SparkyNZ said:
I will start by admitting that I am not a seasoned bass player - but I do record bass riffs and piece my compositions together in Cubase. I have 5 string Ibanez Ergodyne with active pickups.

Something I have noticed today is that when I play the same 2 notes on my E-string, each note is not in tune with the other. Specifically, the second note is always higher. I have my index finger on the 7th fret

I don't think I'm applying more pressure on the fret when I'm playing the second note and instead of alternate picking, I've even tried using the same finger to try and get the same attack and pressure for both notes.

I went through about 10 takes and they're all doing the same thing. I know I can consciously vary my pressure on the second note to lower the note that's produces but I'm just curious to know your thoughts on this. Suppose I should grab a pick and see what happens too..
Click to expand...
Technique.
Same fret? Technique.

A B is a B is a B. Only difference in timbre, is how and where you hit the string.
 
#16
Other than doing something physical to the bass, it could be a perception artifact based on the background harmonic context and your expectations.
There's a jazz piece by Wayne Shorter called Nefertiti (the name of the Miles Davis album it's on) it's like a mobius strip-every time you play it it seems to rise a step. But it doesn't. It's the same notes every time. btw, the only improvisation on Nefertiti is from the drums Tony Williams, it's a drum show.
 
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#17
SteveCS said:
This can't happen in isolation, so it is something you are doing. Are you inadvertently bending the strings as you play? It might be worth checking in a mirror or pointing a video camera at your hand just to see what is going on.
Another possibility is that you are, again unintentionally, pulling back on the neck as you hold each note...
Either way, try loosening your left hand grip...
Click to expand...
I 2nd that. Play in front of a mirror or record it on your phone. If this is actually happening it’s because you are either pushing to hard and it’s bending sharp or you are bending laterally. The other thing to note is that the attack of a note is always slightly sharp, this is visible on something like a strobe tuner. That’s a natural and inescapable fact of physics.
 
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#18
SparkyNZ said:
It's an illusion. I have some strings playing in the background and these are giving the effect that the bass is shifting pitch. The strings do have a bit of phasing going on and possibly do shift pitch a little.

It's been driving me nuts. For the past hour I've been turning my tuning pegs trying to get in tune with little luck. Once I mute the strings, everything sounds great with the bass.. I put the strings back in and .. yuck. Maybe some panning on the strings will help for now.
Click to expand...

When you say “strings playing in the background” are you talking about stringed instruments, like cello, violin, etc.
If so, they are likely using heavy vibrato, which is a technique that slightly changes pitch in a rhythmic pattern.

I play a little violin, and my playing didn’t sound “violin like” until I learned to do vibrato. It is used much more than you think to get that classical sound.
 
#20
BassBrass said:
Other than doing something physical to the bass, it could be a perception artifact based on the background harmonic context and your expectations.
There's a jazz piece by Wayne Shorter called Nefertiti (the name of the Miles Davis album it's on) it's like a mobius strip-every time you play it it seems to rise a step. But it doesn't. It's the same notes every time. btw, the only improvisation on Nefertiti is from the drums Tony Williams, it's a drum show.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm totally with you on that one. I'll post a few clips when I get round to it to show what I mean. I've reached the "I've had enough and need a break" point with this tune.. time to turn to another hobby for a couple of days :-) I had a good run at recording bass for 4 tunes lately. Then I hit this riff and it's just been frustrating. Sometimes it's a good idea to walk away for a while.
 

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