Replace preamp or pups first?

[lowfreqgeek]

Assuming quality pickups, there's far more opportunity to kill the tone in the preamp. Every component in the path is an opportunity for tone alteration. Every preamp on the market has a design philosophy behind it that will determine what it does to the tone. Does it use tantalum or electrolytic or ceramic caps in the signal path? Does it use FET input stages or BJTs, or a FET-input opamp or bipolar? What does the bypassing look like? How about the filter topology?

In my experience, the differences between Aguilar and Bartolini and EMG preamps (and all the others) lie in the design philosophy and topology as much as they do EQ set points and what not. The unique voice of each is directly due to more than just what EQ points were chosen or the Q or slope or anything else - which is also part of the overall design philosophy. As users, we're usually somewhat oblivious to what specifically goes into each preamp; we simply like or dislike it for various reasons.

Certainly, the pickups will have a huge impact on the overall tone. Personally, I prefer to go passive for a while and see what I like/dislike about the pickups themselves before I jump to a specific preamp. Do you need more highs in the signal? How much and where? What preamp does *that*? Too boomy in the low-mids? Which preamp has the controls set at a relevant point? Do you like crisp and clean, or a little wool? Figure that stuff out before you purchase a preamp...

Of course, if you go passive a while and still can't get what you want out of the pickups via outboard manipulation (EQ, etc.), then consider replacing those. It's a "system" and all works together.

 

[Kwesi]

Assuming quality pickups, the only place to go wrong would be preamp . You can't really assume that in this case since the general consensus on the entire Mk1 system is that it doesn't sound nearly as good as it's "real" Bartolini counter-part. I've owned and played basses with it and it just doesn't sound like it's "quality" stuff.

 

[Ben Heard]

i just talked to one of the top techs in my area and he said change the pickups first, as the preamp shapes the tone of the pickups so therefore changing the pickups first would make sense. ive decided pickup wise im going bartolini mk4s. plus, the preamp is going to follow a few months after anyways so it isnt too much of a concern. recommendations on a site to order the pups in for cheap?

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

A very good point. I can now say that the first "frikken sweet" piece of gear a bassist obtains should, without a doubt, be the amp especially if you're actively gigging.

I have a Little Mark Tube 800, 15 YR edition.

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

i just talked to one of the top techs in my area and he said change the pickups first, as the preamp shapes the tone of the pickups so therefore changing the pickups first would make sense. ive decided pickup wise im going bartolini mk4s. plus, the preamp is going to follow a few months after anyways so it isnt too much of a concern. recommendations on a site to order the pups in for cheap?

I agree. I'm looking at the Nordstrand Audio p/ups.

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

Hey I recently swapped out the electronics on my '09 SR600 which used to have the Mk1 setup that you have. I also have a Peavy TNT115 amp so my sound is pretty much identical to what you're working with.

Mk1 Pickups are far from lousy, but they are also not the same as US made barts. I did a little research on this and other forums and found that the Mk1 pickups are essentially a licensed Ibanez knockoff. They're purposely made a little different so they aren't as hot as regular barts.

I ended up going with bartolini Mk5 soap bars and the bart NTBM 3 band EQ. (Bestbassgear.com has everything you need.) In terms of tone I can tell you that it was like night and day over the stock setup. However, I did both at the same time so IDK if it was the preamp, the pickups, or both that made the difference.

Anyways, this was my first guitar electronics project so I learned quite a bit... if you have any questions I'd be happy to help.

So yeah, feel free to post or pm me any questions about the project.

Thanks, at the moment I'm going to start with the p/ups Nordstrand I think. I'm not sure on the preamp just yet.

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

Only in the case of EMG-HZs do I ever recommend changing the pickups before the preamp.

If you're lacking tonal variety, you wish you had a 3-band preamp, or you don't like the frequency centers of the preamp, change the preamp first.
If you think the preamp is fine and works well, change the pickups.

8 times out of 10, somebody with an active bass will be in the first category, which is why I recommend a preamp change first.

However, I'm not a Bartolini fan, so I'd probably recommend you change all of it.

I'm going with changing the p/ups first and then I will know if the preamp needs to go as well. I'm looking at Nordstrand p/ups.

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

I'm not discrediting the ability for a preamp to tailor tone to a specific situation but how many "Average-Joe" bassists do you know actually take that much info into account. Would it be helpful? Absolutely! But, realistically people are more likely to choose what they like the sound of as opposed to what might work for them in a more "scientific" sense. Besides with a 3 band on-board EQ you can't hope to change the world and you shouldn't have to. The way I see it, on-board EQs should be left to do small tone tweaks to fit the music better, not shape your sound to match the room. Most people would do that with the EQ on their amp or some other kind of more powerful, more capable EQ. All that said most on-boards stick around the similar center frequencies anyway.

I agree.

 

[FREDDYKBASS]

Yes diff preamps have their own voice. Its same thing with high end audio speakers. B&W, Theil, Monitor Audio, etc with the same cd played thru them will sound a little diff thru each. However there is specific frequency ranges which have diff effect on a sounds qaulity. For example theres a specific area of the midrange which when accented causes what ussually referred to s nassally sound. Just as theres a part of the bass spectrum that most gives that thumpy boomy muddy qaulity to bass. Accent or diminish an area of upper treble and human voices thru a speaker system will sound more lifelike in person there. Or less so because of overtones seldom heard thru low end budget speakers. Theres also a part of the treble range humans are specifically very sensitive to which when boosted creates annoyance and irritating treblyness. Take a 20 band eq and play full spectrum orchestra music that includes a prog rock band. With care you can make the mid budget speaker system sound more like high end audio one. And you can also learn what the various areas of bass, midrange, and treble effect. On indiviudal instruments and common traits held by various instruments found within a given range of frequencies. The ideal is to use a bass whose woods and pups create a great voice for you passive. The active eq just is added for two things.

1. That change to the sound created by conversion to HiZ is a desired one. Tone controls left at flat, no boost, no cut.
2. Your bass control either helps you dial out room booomyness, or something else boosted or cut useful to you because of how that freq, say 40hz is nicer center for you rather then 120 hz. Even when your playing the D or G string. Your mid control might be to add in some nassallyness if your into that, or to cut thru the mix better cause well after all that is the common midrange freq specified for that. Or you prefer a part of the midrange to boost now and then that more relates to growl. Treble cause you either want to use it for benefit to sound in overly hard venues that accent that treble range (2k-4k that humans are extra sensitive to) which annoys easilly when dominate. Or to accent or cut that higher area of treble for reason. This reason might relate to a part of the human voice overtone range that ussually helps you tell wether your listening to a person in person, or simply over a common speaker system. Which also has an interesting effect on bass guitar voice btw. Or perhaps your going for something else related to overtone content. With the glocks really high treble center your more doing the former. With my own preferred lower setting of 6khz I'm useing the same part of the sound spectrum Id use with synthesizer piano to give it more acoustic piano type overtone accent.

Heres a useful freq chart. It can help one learn what areas of sound spectrum for example cause various things. Link Removed

Thank you. I will check it out