Replacement Speakers for Kasino Snake Eyes 2x15

Discussion in 'Amps and Cabs [BG]' started by Plucky The Bassist, Jun 19, 2011.

  1. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    So I've been trying to get rid of my Kasino 2x15 for a while and now I'm thinking of just sucking it up and letting it take up room in my place for years to come....with some modifications.

    Totally aware of the "there is no underpowering" and "watts don't equal volume" stuff, and that's not what I'm after, but I'll explain my situation. My go-to head is a Carvin BX500, I run a VT bass deluxe through the front side of the amp and it sounds good on my 2x10s. Since the head is 500w RMS, it puts out a lot of juice for such a small class-d package. The problem with this, is that I'm assuming my 2x15s is only designed to handle 200w or 300w max. The cab is a Kasino Snake Eyes 2x15 that is all original, but I'm having a difficult time finding some solid specs on it (either here or on google) but I do know its a 4 ohm cab. Anytime my Carvin goes past 1 or 1.5 on volume, the cab farts out pretty hard. Effects? Overdrive? Forget it!

    I'm looking to replace the stock speakers with something neo to cut down on weight and also something that can increase how much wattage the cab can take. To the best of my knowledge, its a sealed cabinet, and therefore concerns me as to which speakers to replacement these with. Having searched around the best I can, fellas on here have stated that you don't just grab a set of speakers and throw them in any cabinet...they have to be a compatible set. I'd like to throw in something like Kappalites that will take a fair amount of punishment and hopefully increase the volume the cab can push out without the cabinet farting out on me. Since this cab is a little more rare than say, an Ampeg 2x15, info is hard to come by on it.

    This will be my first endeavor in ANY kind of cabinet modification. Anything else I should know when opening her up? Should I get new wiring, insulation, and a new input jack? Any suggestions on speakers or placement in the cab? I've done sub boxes and sub wiring/installation before, is it too much different from that? Sorry for all the stupid questions, quite a newb to cab modding =(


    EDIT: Open to other stuff BESIDES neo, it would be a plus but it doesn't have to be neo
     
  2. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Don't know of many 15's designed specifically for a sealed box....some models will work either. Porting it is fairly easy using pipes if you end up going that route. Depending on what it looks like on the inside you may have to pick up some lining and/or a stick of wood dowel to add some bracing.

    You also need to post the dimensions of the inside of the box in order for anyone to know what drivers will work in it and which ones won't.
     
  3. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    Is just for the dimension of the drivers to fit and not hit the back of the wall, or is this more abstract than that? Like how much air it can displace within the box and still sound ok? I'm probably going to suck it up, be brave, and just open her up to take pics and measure the actual speakers themselves.

    Porting would be RAD, but idk how well she would handle it...it's a pretty old cab lol
     
  4. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Length, width and height to calculate how much space is inside the box. Some 15's can work in as little as 3 cubic feet each, maybe even less if it's sealed. Others need maybe 4cu.ft. to function properly.
     
  5. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    Ok so I cracked it open and got some pics...I think I may have a TON of room in here (and it may be ported as well!)

    So on the first two pics from when I just opened it up, I noticed that there were two different kinds of insulation in there. One was a grey color and was attached to the back and walls of the cabinet, the other was MASSIVELY thicker and a beige color. Also, there are parts of this that seem like it was backyard mechanic work (pic 4 with the "?" mark). All in all, if the beige stuff is added in by somebody later on, I have plenty of space. As far as the driver goes, I measured 8 inches of clearance from the back of the driver magnet to the back of the wall, with the grey insulation its about 4-6 inches of clearance and there seems to be tons of room without the beige crap in there.

    The crossover box looked strange to me as well, it has a spot marked "tweeter", "midrange" and "subwoofer" (with my speakers hooked up to the subwoofer part). Hopefully there isn't some frequency ranges that I'm missing out on, as I assumed I was running these speakers in full range without any tweeters and don't want something cutting out my mids or highs artificially. I'm not sure if that is stock either, as that and the wiring all seem to be in very good shape for their age.

    The last picture shows the cabinet as being ported (HOORAY!!!)...I think. There is a portion down at the bottom where its just straight from the back of the cabinet to the grill cloth, which im assuming is the port for the cabinet. If so, this would dramatically increase my options for speakers I could use. It seems to me that somebody was modding this cabinet quite a bit, but wasn't doing a good job of it. Not sure if the cross-over is stock but the beige padding looks totally botched up and seems to be an amateur job. Idk why you would want to choke out a cabinet that is ported in the first place with stupid foam, but im no cab expert myself. Input jack and wiring looks fine, so no worries there....any more info gentlemen? =)
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    pics of the crossover and botched padding job
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    last one, this is the "porting" that I saw on the cabinet. Sorry for the bad quality, it was on my phone
     

    Attached Files:

  8. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Well to start with all that really thick foam can come out. If the grey stuff is nasty it can come out too. Replace it with mattress topper foam, the 1- 1/2" or so thick eggcrate looking stuff. A twin or fullsize bed piece will be enough.

    Can't tell on the phone but that xover will either be a lowpass or maybe a 2way with high out for a PA top. I think someone tried to make a subwoofer out of that thing.

    For now I'd bypass or remove it, do the bed lining and wire your current speakers up to a regular jack and see how it sounds.....take it from there. If your speakers are 8 or 16ohm wire them in parallel, if they're 4ohm wire them in series for now and see how that ends up.
     
  9. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    Since the speakers seem to have plugs that match up with that crossover and the input jack too, idk if the guy did a total overhaul or what with the cab. I'm going to TRY the cab set up that way before i decide to re-wire it. At least now I know what I'm dealing with...if the cab sounds like garbage I know I will need to replace the crossover along with the speakers when money permits. Thanks for the help! Anybody else wanting to contribute is more than welcome...STILL NEED SPEAKER SUGGESTIONS!!! =)


    UPDATE: Cab can handle more volume, but im still getting the farts and cab buzzing by about level 2 on my carvin's master volume. Think there might be something loose in there (speakers maybe?) not looking forward to opening it up AGAIN, but it sounds like my cab HATES mids with a passion, it also hates notes that sustain for more than half a second too. When the cab isn't buzzing, the tone is actually pretty good. But what good is a cabinet if that's as far as I can take it? Don't think that would even hold up in a band setting =/
     
  10. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    Double checked the speakers to see how well they were mounted in....screws holding them were as loose as a 50 year old hooker's you know what. Tightened those bad-boys up and made sure everything else was tightened up too, even the screws holding in the crossover board were freakin loose as all get-out.

    Speakers don't buzz very much anymore, I can get to 3 or 4 on master volume (a very nominal amount) with an expected amount of speaker rattle. Although a terrible rattling is coming from the back, which im positive is the crossover since 2/3rds of the board is hanging up there without any bracing. The cabinet could use some new speakers AND a new crossover board, but at least I know what im up against. Any suggestions on speakers yet?
     
  11. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    You haven't posted any dimensions yet. Without the height, width and depth of the inside of the box any speaker suggestions will be nothing but a wildass guess.

    Need the measurements of the inside of the port too.

    If there is just the two 15 's in there and no other speakers or tweeters bypass that crossover and wire them straight to a jack. There's nothing to crossover and it's possible it could damage your amp running it like that. I suspect the previous owner put that in there to chain a PA top or something to it.
     
  12. jungleheat

    jungleheat Inactive

    Jun 19, 2011
    DC
    Yeah, that crossover is completely pointless in there and unless this "Kasino" company was totally ********, it is almost certainly a "custom" job. Get rid of it and run the speakers direct from the jack. You could certainly install some upgraded speaker wire if you so choose. AudioQuest makes some nice solid core stuff that I've used for stereo applications. The cheap ass 22 gauge wire from the 70s or whatever isn't going to do your power transferring capabilities any favors. If you want this cab to live and breathe you need to pump wattage into it quick, fast, and in a hurry, and that means lots of current.

    Personally I've never heard of having to use "specific" speakers for sealed vs ported boxes. Obviously, if you know the Thiele-Small parameters and the interior volume of the cab, it might guide you in the right direction, but unless you are an expert on that stuff, it's a bit like shooting in the dark, and pretty difficult to translate the numbers into what will actually SOUND GOOD in a room in person. Especially with a cab that is so clearly NOT designed with any of that stuff in mind in the first place.

    So the obvious course would be to just buy a pair of generally good sounding speakers and hope for the best. Fussing with numbers can be of great benefit in certain cases, but this is never going to be an audiophile grade cab, and ultimately the sound you get is going to be dependent on the cab a lot more than the speakers. You say you have a Carvin head. In general I've been pretty impressed with Carvin gear, except for my PB200 (which is well made but just doesn't sound that good to me, due to a poor preamp design, however when I run my SWR head through just the cab, it sounds pretty good). I know they sell neo 15s that are pretty inexpensive (under $100) and weigh like 10 pounds or something, so that might be a good choice. You would want the 8 ohm versions, which if wired correctly, would give you a total of 4 ohms.

    Personally, I feel it's hard to go wrong with EVs for bass applications. Recently I managed to score a NOS 400W EVM 15B off ebay for super cheap to put in an even cheaper vintage Carvin 1x15 cab from the 80s. It sounds really good although being from that era, the cab is kind of ringy, so I'm not sure if I'll try to correct that or just put the EV in a different cab. But altogether the cab only cost me $230 and that's with a brand new EV in it and the Peavey Black Widow the cab came with in a box ready to be sold.

    Now, considering I have the spec sheet for the EV, if I was so industrious, I could use aforementioned TS #s and design a cab specifically for it, which would undoubtedly kill women and children at 200 paces. But if I had measured the volume of the cab, etc... and pored over the internet for hours and hours researching which currently available and affordable 15" driver had just the right TS parameters to match the (cheaply designed but cool as **** looking) cab, I doubt I would have gotten much better results than just lucking onto a great deal on ebay as I did.

    Oh, and I would keep the foam, or replace it (but why add cost and hassle for a project like this). Sealed boxes are always stuff with insulation, and my ported JBL L100s, which are some of the best sounding speakers in history (that you don't have to mortgage your internal organs for) also have quite a lot.

    Anyway, good luck.
     
  13. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    Sealed boxes should be stuff with something like pillow stuffing/polyfill, ported ones should be lined with opencell foam (the mattress topper) or quilt batting/insulation. There's way too much foam in there and I'm not certain it's even the right kind....it may actually be shrinking the box.

    As far as "shooting in the dark" with speakers, you can do that if you want although it can get expensive and frustrating real fast. I'd much rather get a predictable result the first time.
     
    dcheming likes this.
  14. walterw

    walterw Supportive Fender Commercial User

    Feb 20, 2009
    alpha-music.com
    yeah, that crossover has no business being there; rip it out with extreme prejudice!

    yank that stupid couch-cushion foam out too, while you're at it.

    as for speakers, the eminence kappa 15a kicks ass and is not too pricey. they sound good in vented boxes like that. (i have two, in a pair of LDS single 15 cabs that together are about as big as that box, so you would likely be happy with them.)
     
  15. kfc333

    kfc333

    Dec 25, 2010
    The Kasino is identical to the tuck & roll Kustom amps of the same time period. They were designed to be ported cabs. The grey insulation is stock; those foam blocks are not, and should be removed. The speakers are marked as 8 ohm and would be wired in parallel, thus making it a 4 ohm cabinet. Typical Kustom. The crossover is not stock; remove it. Now, the speakers. They are originals, but weren't designed to handle a lot of bottom end. In fact, they are probably guitar speakers and not bass speakers. The Eminence Beta-15 is a great match for a Kustom / Kasino bass cab.
     
  16. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    I had considered the Beta15A but I'm liking the Delta 15A's specs a bit better (more wattage, better frequency response range too). Think it would be a good fit for the cab?

    Thank you guys, btw, for all the advice and responses. The padding has long gone and is now at the dumpster somewhere (it smelled like anus). The crossover will disappear once I get enough money for the new speakers, wiring (thanks for the tip on wiring, Jungleheat!), and a new input jack. Now I just have to work my debts off and then I can afford to trick the cab out! I'll keep you guys informed on the progress :D
     
  17. will33

    will33

    May 22, 2006
    austin,tx
    The delta's have shorter excursion (xmax spec) meaning they can't move back and forth as far before they fart out/distort.

    They are however high is spl and are a good choice if you're running about 200 watts or less. More power than that and the beta's make more sense.
     
  18. Plucky The Bassist

    Plucky The Bassist ZOMG! I'm back from the dead! Supporting Member

    Jul 30, 2010
    Tejas
    Thank you for pointing that out (I am a self-admitted n00b at this stuff), so I started checking out some other speakers and was basing more of my criteria on the xmax of the speakers.

    I see a lot of eminence "LFA" speakers that seem to be a lot more bass-focused and have frequency response cutting off at about 2.5-3.7khz. The Xmax on the Kappa and Delta LFAs are waaaay better than the standard Deltas (regular was 2.7mm, the LFA Deltas were 4.8 and the Kappa LFA 5.5mm). The price difference isn't super steep, so I might hang with the Kappas in the end.

    Anybody think I'm missing out on something terribly with a frequency response range of 38hz-2.7khz? Honestly for slap bass I want some snap, but I don't want a bunch of shrill garbage...I want the cab to thump hard and clean. If the current speakers sound good when they aren't rattling or turned up way too loud, I can only imagine these speakers will do at least the same at a higher volume....I am looking forward to more thump though. I'm looking at about $280 for a new set of speakers...but it sure as heck beats replacing the speakers in an 8x10s fridge lol
     
  19. KramerBassFan

    KramerBassFan

    Jan 3, 2009
    Just put two Eminence Beta 15's in it.

    I have a woodson 2x15 cab, and Woodson was more or less Kustom just made out in Missouri. Get some betas, and be done with it.
     
  20. billfitzmaurice

    billfitzmaurice Commercial User

    Sep 15, 2004
    New Hampshire
    Owner, Bill Fitzmaurice Loudspeaker Design
    With fifteens even if the axial response is good to 5kHz the off-axis is never going to be useful above 2kHz, so it's a moot point. Extension is of little value without dispersion. If you really need strong mids and want everyone to hear them that's what midrange drivers are for. You may find a single LF style driver and a midrange driver ala the fEarful style is the best bet, especially as you have the power to push it with.
    High priced wire is the single biggest rip-off in the world today.
    http://www.audioholics.com/education/frequently-asked-questions/audioquest-cable-theories-exposed

    No cab needs anything larger than 16 ga, and nothing works better than the most basic copper wire.