Rick weak pickup sufferer..

[george.c.]

hi people,

i have a 2008 rick that i hardly play because of the weak pickup syndrome. at this stage i haven't taken it to a technician because(a)i like solving problems myself and (b) it was an expensive instrument that i don't particularly want to throw money at.i purchased it as a grey import so it has no warranty.

before anyone says its the strings or setup etc,forget it.i've tried every adjustment imaginable to no avail.

the other day a mate of mine was over and he asked to have a look. he grabbed a metal ruler i had lying around and put it up against each pickup on my ric. the magnetic grab felt weak. then he put it on a few of my fender basses and a couple of guitars as well and the difference was very very noticeable.

my gut feel tells me that the pickups are defective.he mentioned to do a temporary rewire to bypass everything and see if that makes any difference to the volume output.basically just go straight off the pickups with no tone or vol pots.

can anyone shed any light on this especially the weak magnets?

 

[SGD Lutherie]

They use ceramic magnets, so it's unlikely the magnets would not have gotten degaussed somehow.

First off, are you sure it's a real Rick?

 

[george.c.]

i've had it apart. it's definately real.

i want to start using it but at the moment it just doesn't cut it.the tone is there but the output is weak,especially on the E&A strings.i've become a bit disheartened with the whole thing..

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Both pickups are weak?

 

[george.c.]

ye both. during rehearsals i have to drive my amp mega hard(3/4) to get reasonable volume with the ric. if i plug my fender jazz in the same rig(wt550 thru 6x10) i struggle to get past 1/2 way.

another thing,if i'm on the bridge p/u and roll the tone off the vol drops completely off.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

ye both. during rehearsals i have to drive my amp mega hard(3/4) to get reasonable volume with the ric. if i plug my fender jazz in the same rig(wt550 thru 6x10) i struggle to get past 1/2 way.

Pickups can't get weak on just a couple of strings. And not both at the same time. In fact with the way Rick pickups are made, you cant have two weak strings. It's one magnet, it's not like a Fender pickups with magnets for each string. So either it's the strings, the bridge making the strings dead, or the pickups aren't close enough to the strings.

I have two '73 4001s so I'm very familiar with these basses.

another thing,if i'm on the bridge p/u and roll the tone off the vol drops completely off.

Does that bass have the vintage switch? That removes all the low end on the bridge pickup. It makes it very weak sounding.

Otherwise that sounds like a wiring issue. Does the volume drop out with the volume knob all the way up?

Also are you plugged into the mono output jack?

 

[george.c.]

i've adjusted the pickup heights and pole pieces many times with very little effect.

yes it does have the vintage switch

yes the volume drops off with the knob up all the way as i roll off the tone knob.

yes i'm in the mono jack

i might do this bypass thing my mate suggested.what do you think?thanks for your input

 

[SGD Lutherie]

i've adjusted the pickup heights and pole pieces many times with very little effect.

You can't adjust the pole pieces. If you did, you probably damaged the pickups.

Do you have a multimeter?

i might do this bypass thing my mate suggested.

That wont change anything.

Have a qualified tech look at the bass.

 

[Metal Mitch]

You can't adjust the pole pieces. If you did, you probably damaged the pickups.

The new Ric pickups introduced in 2006 have adjustable pole pieces.

 

[Metal Mitch]

yes the volume drops off with the knob up all the way as i roll off the tone knob.

That definitely sounds like it was wired wrong. Check it against the schematic and I'll bet you find an error.

That's not to say it's the only problem

the magnetic grab felt weak. then he put it on a few of my fender basses and a couple of guitars as well and the difference was very very noticeable.

my gut feel tells me that the pickups are defective.

can anyone shed any light on this especially the weak magnets?

I noticed right away the new 2006-present pickups are weaker than the previous generation. Particularly the neck pickup. It seems as if it's designed to match output of the bridge pickup when the vintage tone cap is engaged.

But more specifically, check to see if the bar magnet under the pickup bobbin is centered. Ric QC is pretty bad about verifying the magnets are installed correctly.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

The new Ric pickups introduced in 2006 have adjustable pole pieces.

I didn't know that! I was going to write that you are better off keeping the poles closer to the pickup (and the magnet) and then I found this post John Hall (Rickenbacker CEO) made over at the Rick Resource forum:

by John Hall (johnhall) » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:50 pm

Unscrewing the pole on the weak string *MAY* solve your problem, but generally a better approach is to screw down the poles on the louder strings to make them softer, but then raise the entire pickup closer overall to increase the overall volume.

The poles over more volume adjustability as you screw them closer to the bobbin, whereas unscrewing them tends result in less change. It's a hysteresis thing related to how much of the screw mass is in the magnetic field at any given point.

Time to start my Rick replacement pickup project...

 

[george.c.]

firstly i think i will check it against a schematic to make sure and if that's all good i'm going to go straight off the pickups.will post my results once i've done that.

cheers

 

[SGD Lutherie]

firstly i think i will check it against a schematic to make sure and if that's all good i'm going to go straight off the pickups.will post my results once i've done that.

cheers

Bypassing the controls doesn't make it much louder, though it may be a bit brighter.

Rickenbacker does a few things in their wiring they shouldn't be doing. For instance with the tone control, the unused leg of the pot should not be grounded. This puts a constant load on the pickups. And the tone controls should go to the amp side of the volume pots, and not the pickup side. That helps prevent the tone control from working like a volume control when your volume is not on full.

I used to use an external preamp to boost my level up. Eventually I replaced the pickups with something else.

 

[Ric5]

The new Ric pickups introduced in 2006 have adjustable pole pieces.

Also on the pickups made in the 90s and early 2000s they pole pieces can be adjusted if you know what you are doing. Pickups made before 1990 are not adjustable. But yes the modern ones can be adjusted with an allen wrench. The new adjustable pickups are slightly quiter than the old ones.

Rickenbacker high gain pickups should be loud. Check for a wiring fault.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

Rickenbacker high gain pickups should be loud. Check for a wiring fault.

Yeah, something doesn't seem right.

I also want to point out that my experiences are with the pickups in my two 1973 4001s. I understand that the newer ones are indeed louder.