Double Bass Ricochet and Con Legno

[daniellumertz]

Hi I'm a composer and I have a question about bass: can you perform con legno with the technique ricochet for fast passages ?
Like that

Thanks!!
I dont get too long in this mensage becouse is 3AM and i'm composing very tired heheheh

 

[neilG]

Yes, but please don't.

 

[PaulCannon]

Yes, but please don't.

Why not?

 

[neilG]

Why not?

My opinion, based on 40+ years of symphonic playing:
1- It's difficult to coordinate within ANY string section. Worse in fast passages.
2- The DB col legno is rarely perceptible above the higher strings. Think Holst's "Mars". You don't really hear the basses.
3- Most composers don't realize it's not a very loud sound and have other instruments too loud for it to be heard.
4- Nobody wants to be banging their nice bows against the strings.

 

[daniellumertz]

hahaha it is for my quintet so its chamber music it will have more space to sound i'm being carefull about it i'm thinking in puting like one movement just doing it in the bass, so the player can change bows, Thanks for the feedback neilG!!! Very glad here

 

[Co.]

2- The DB col legno is rarely perceptible above the higher strings.

In my experience, every sound is louder on double bass than on higher strings, except "normal" bowing.

 

[PaulCannon]

My opinion, based on 40+ years of symphonic playing:
1- It's difficult to coordinate within ANY string section. Worse in fast passages.
2- The DB col legno is rarely perceptible above the higher strings. Think Holst's "Mars". You don't really hear the basses.
3- Most composers don't realize it's not a very loud sound and have other instruments too loud for it to be heard.
4- Nobody wants to be banging their nice bows against the strings.

My response, based on much less than 40 years experience specializing in new music. I don't intend to be adversarial, but I don't agree with much of what you've said.

1. Fair enough, but I'd place that responsibility directly on the players. The example given is hardly impossible, and I know from my own experiences that a section interested in playing a new piece at a high level would have no problem with such a reasonable passage.

2. You have this backwards. A bassist playing col legno at full strength would have no trouble being heard over a small string section. Just hit the thing harder. Our instrument will take more punishment than a violin before breaking.

3. True, depending on context. It's not a timpani.

4. Of course, but that's why I have a few cheap bows on hand ready for demolition. It's not unreasonable to expect professional players to spend $80 on a junk bow for these occasions. It's not an uncommon technique.

 

[wathaet]

My opinion, based on 40+ years of symphonic playing:
1- It's difficult to coordinate within ANY string section. Worse in fast passages.

Not an issue in the orchestras I work with. The example given is pretty much a bar out of Firebird, hardly the most difficult piece for a section to play. Now, far more annoying, this coming week I have many pages of whole bar quarterstep glisses around the Db on the extension. Joy

 

[neilG]

hahaha it is for my quintet so its chamber music it will have more space to sound i'm being carefull about it i'm thinking in puting like one movement just doing it in the bass, so the player can change bows, Thanks for the feedback neilG!!! Very glad here

In a quintet with only one player on a part, go for it. In that context, the answer to your original question is yes, it's possible.

 

[wathaet]

In a quintet with only one player on a part, go for it. In that context, the answer to your original question is yes, it's possible.

Also perfectly possible in a professional section or good college orchestra.

 

[neilG]

Also perfectly possible in a professional section or good college orchestra.

I never said it was impossible. Except for a few well-known pieces, the way I've seen it used is ineffectual and hardly worth the effort.