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Double Bass Right Hand On The E String

B

bassist1962

Jun 29, 2006
878
3
63
Portland, Oregon
#1
When I play, I can pull and get decent tone and volume from the A D and G stings, but the E is a chore. In asking for advice, I was recently told about having to find the right angle of the right hand, due to the radius of the fingerboard. I thought I had been doing that for awhile, but still no power.

Yesterday it happened. I finally got the power, and at least A tone that I liked. In checking my hand position, I realized that my thumb was behind the board, not on the side like the other three strings. This allows me to still dig in, get a percussive thunk as my finger is stopped by the edge of the fingerboard, and I feel I have more control in the right hand as it is not flying off and doing whatever it wants to.

It is a start, and I have to practice this to be able to do it consistently, and try to discover other nuances, such as a mellower or more agressive sound on that string. I love discovering new things on this instrument, and felt the need to pass this advice on to anybody else who may be having the same trouble.
 
#3
One of my teachers said Roland Guerin called him out on his thumb being under the fingerboard like that. You may find it cumbersome to shift your thumb under and back. This is what my teacher showed me:

If you rotate your wrist clockwise as you pull, you can keep your thumb in the same place and still get that same attack. When done correctly, the index finger follows through to point down at the bass, perpendicular to the top. It's sort of using your thumb as the axis of rotation, so the part of your thumb that's touching the fingerboard at the end of the stroke is more the top between the nail and the knuckle.

Let me know if I need to clarify anything, I had a hell of a time figuring out how to word that. :hmm:
 
#4
Many players make the "mistake" of pulling the E-string somewhat parallel to the top of the bass while "properly" pulling the other strings down into the fingerboard. The responses above seem to be pointing this out and suggesting that the E be pulled in the same manner as the other strings. That is, the hand/finger is rotated down in virtually the same motion as for the other strings. I agree with those suggestions. :)

Years ago, one of my teachers admonished me not to let my right hand leave the board when playing the E. It was good advice.
 
#5
I'm more or less in agreement with Kennypm. It's almost like how you snap your fingers, except instead of your middle finger pushing against your thumb, it's against the string. Adapting the same motion for your index finger takes a bit of time in my experience, but is worth it I think.

But then again, my problem was not so much getting a good tone from the E string, but doing so repeatedly as in a walking line or so on without sacrificing solid time.

I also find it advantageous to think of pizz technique not as "pulling" on the string, but trying to send as much mass of one's finger through the string as quickly as possible as pulling on the string can be cumbersome and inconsistent (or at least with my hands, it can be.)
 
#7
‪Robert Hurst Quintet - 1993 - Blues In The Deep Freeze‬‏ - YouTube

Bob does that kinda thing right at the beginning, though what I described is a much more exaggerated version of that motion. He does more curling of his other fingers as he plucks, which changes the weight distribution in a similar way. Try turning your wrist like you're starting your car as you pluck. It's probably going to vary at least a little based on your body. Try that basic motion but don't be afraid to experiment and go with whatever feels good... the idea is just to get the sound you want without hurting yourself or expending unnecessary energy.
 
#8
Thanks kenny. I see him doing four beats on the E string. The first looks like the motion that you describe, the next three are what I am really trying to achieve. A more 'normal' pull, but it looks as if he is lifting his thumb off the side of the board. How do I achieve that without losing control, or lacking power?
 
#9
If you notice in the Hurst video, he keeps his thumb more or less underneath the fingerboard the whole time. No matter what string he's playing, the tip of his thumb is resting on the back of the fingerboard. I really like that technique. Another technique I learned for getting a full sound on ballads is curving your index finger and plucking with the larger middle knuckle. The result is a subtler attack, but very full sound.
 
#10
Practice the motion in a somewhat exaggerated manner first. Once you have that down, your body will have developed the required strength your brain will have learned the connection between your movements and the sound they produce. Then you can relax/lighten up where you want, having internalized the technique.
 
#12
emilioterranova said:
If you notice in the Hurst video, he keeps his thumb more or less underneath the fingerboard the whole time. No matter what string he's playing, the tip of his thumb is resting on the back of the fingerboard.
Click to expand...

I may have worded it differently. but this is what I am doing, just not doing the 'turn key'.

chicago, I have 'evolving upward', but don't have the 'evolving bassist'. Is the turn key exercise in the first book?
 
#13
I looked into the issue of thumb placement years ago, and discovered that lots of great players do all kinds of different things regarding placement of that thumb, and their advice often contradicts each other (not out of pedantry or malice against another player, but merely out of honestly expressing what works for them). Each player had their thumb callous in a slight different place on the length of the thumb, but all sounded great.

Personally, what works for me is a deeper thumb placement (which Lynn Seaton does not advocate) together with the "flipper wave" motion of the hand (which he does) in which the fingers and thumb are extended at all times but still allowed to come closer together around the fingerboard - think of a three finger sock puppet, and you'll get the picture. Next, rotate the wrist clockwise as if you were opening a doorknob with the puppet (which Rufus advocates), and drag the playing fingers along the radius of the fingerboard and through the string (as recommended by John Goldsby). When you get to the E string, following the radius of the board combined with all of the above produces a nice full sound, and the wrist rotation of the "doorknob" motion actually puts a slight upward pressure on the thumb under the board, which keeps the hand from coming off the board.
 
#14
I've never thought of it but my E string always sounded a bit less focused and I always chocked it up to be just the way the bass sounds.

But after reading this I've just noticed, it was the lack of the "pop" I get from pulling into the board, I just tried this with the E string by slightly hitting the edge of the board next to the string, and it really makes it so much more like the other strings, much more focused somehow. I'll have to play with it and see, but this is a real eye opener.

Just a great tip, I bow my hat to you guys.

tumblr_lifu3fw9bg1qe16qvo1_500.jpg
 
#15
I am working on the 'doorknob/turnkey' motion, This seems to be easier than I thought, but I still need to gain some control. I started with the exaggerated motion, and immediately had to settle down because my arm is now hitting the bass as I am pulling. I am getting a nice big loud powerful sound out of the E string now, I just need to practice and get the internalization of the movement down, then work on the subtleties and nuances. Thanks for the tips guys.
 
#16
Here's the deal, kids. The E string is thicker, and takes more calories to pull. Spend time playing scales up and down the E string, up to the second octave. It sounds gnarly but you'll build some serious hand strength that will pay off across the bass. Watch videos of the greats, esp Ray, and you'll see the key turn/ doorknob or whatever sort of pedagogical theme you wish to use, every time they play the E string. Attack it with ferocity. The best thing we have going for us is the low notes!!!
 

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