Thanx DoctorZee for posting. I, too, have an amp with only Speakon connectors and have pondered this same question. Now I know not to play with fire!
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Risk damage with Speakon to 1/4”?
- Thread starter DoctorZee
- Start date
- Feb 12, 2006
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- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
IMO, speakon to 1/4 adapters should not be sold. I had a bucket load of them and threw them out after having issues with them on gigs.
If I followed @agedhorse 's explanation above, a metal phone plug inserted into that adaptor would still be hot (i.e., carry current and voltage). If you touched it while the amp is operating and you happened to be grounded anyplace on your body...zap!
Interestingly I wasn't even aware of the adapters. But I've seen cables sold that are premade with Speakon on one side and 1/4" on the other. That's the solution I was thinking would be used, but I suppose the risk factor is the same.
I don't know about that, I have lots of amps with 1/4 output jacks. The adapter allows me to play them through cabs with speakON jacks.
I have had the same adapter for almost a decade and it has operated trouble free with several amps. Sometimes I also use it to patch a modern amp into an old-school cab as well. Again no problems.
I do agree that speakON is better but I don't plan to mod my amps, so it doesn't make that much sense to mod my cabs either. I am aware of the dangers and limitations of using 1/4" cables and take step to mitigate risk.
I just got a VT bass head a month ago, and i must have missed that part of the manual. Oddly enough, I was using Speakon - 1/4". Didn't have any issues but ordered Speakon to Speakon from Sweetwater a minute ago just to be safe. Thanks Everyone!
If you can, replace your old cabs 1/4 inputs to speakeron. Or clamp you adapter with heat shrunk rubber tubing , but you can only eliminate one point of failure. I asked my friend who works for the biggest backline here in our state and they had zero incidents of this happening. And with more powered cabs they are not even thinking of modifying their 1/4 input cabs. I think they just depend on the circuit protection of their amps. My hifi receiver an older Denon will go into self protect if the speaker wires are open and according to the manual also when there is a ground short circuit. I only tested the open scenario.
But based on what Andy said, numbers like 25 amps and 110 volts - that is getting killed territory. Best to just get the pain in the wallet and not through the heart.
But based on what Andy said, numbers like 25 amps and 110 volts - that is getting killed territory. Best to just get the pain in the wallet and not through the heart.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,097
- 5
- 221,258
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
It's not a problem with powered cabs, the 1/4" input is line level and grounded on a powered cabinet.
As a professional welder, I'd just like to say it depends on the diameter of the wire inside the speaker cable more than the difference in speakon and 1/4 jacks. Legit, a 20 foot run of 14 gauge speaker wire with speakons can't handle more than a 20 foot run of 12 gauge with 1/4 jacks. There is way more than enough material in the jack itself to pass way more than 500 watts. I literally feel that the industry just switched to speakon for the limitation of returned defective equipment due to 1/4 jacks grounding out because of owner stupidity.
That is my point about this backline company. They are using more and more powered cabs, so for them there is no return on investment on modifying their cabs with 1/4 inputs with speakeron - at least that's what they say. Maybe they do not want to modify the back plates and instead buying OEM backplates which may cost more. I was quoted quite high for an OEM backplate - so I ended up drilling and wiring the genuine neutrik speakeron myself.
Back in the old days we had to use a piece of string and a can. Then 1/4 cables came along, hell, some of us even used instrument cables when needed. The only decent connector was the Amphenol connector used on Ampeg B15 flip tops. I've had 1/4 plugs get "spit out" of the jack from air pressure in the cabs. Speakon is the way to go.
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AFAIK a 1/4" plug will not handle 20A, so this is not correct.
FYI, the Neutrick NP2XL is spec'ed for 50V and 18GA. wire. I believe the max current rating for 18GA is 16A. Also 50V at 4 ohms is only 625W. Many modern amps make 800W or more at 4 ohms.
Manual says:
"Due to the high power of the amp, we do not recommend using 1/4" jack converters as they are not rated to handle 500W reliably. It could cause intermittent signal and may damage either/both the amp and your speaker cabinet."
So what's the question? You don't believe the manual?
"Due to the high power of the amp, we do not recommend using 1/4" jack converters as they are not rated to handle 500W reliably. It could cause intermittent signal and may damage either/both the amp and your speaker cabinet."
So what's the question? You don't believe the manual?
which 1/4 plug? Because there are many different brands. Also, at 120v, 500 watts is just a little over 4 amps I believe, so way under the proclaimed 20 amp limit to 1/4 jacks.
My view is that no engineer would choose 1/4" plugs and jacks for speaker wiring today if they were not already a standard. They have an exposed contact even when the shell is grounded, and can be shorted if inserted or removed under power. They can be mixed up with small-signal wiring. The user is expected to insert and remove it during normal use. And as I understand it there's a regulatory limit for the voltage on an exposed contact, that could be exceeded by some amplifiers.
Neutrik probably saw the writing on the wall for 1/4" speaker wiring falling out of favor in Europe, and got on board at just the right time to introduce a solution that also became a standard. There are many good things about the Speakon. All of the terminals are shrouded, on both the plug and socket. It's locking. It's cheap yet rugged. What's not to like? Could it be better? "The good is the enemy of the good enough."
I'm not an engineer, but I work with a lot of engineers. It's quite widespread engineering practice to design things that protect against foreseeable user error. The attitude is that stupidity should not carry a death penalty. The Speakon doesn't need any explanation other than just good engineering and a reasonable profit motive.
I'll just say, Ampeg 212av, designed by engineers for 600 watts, 1/4 jacks only. While it wasn't designed this year, it's by no means vintage gear. Speakon is only here because of people that aren't really qualified in the knowledge department to plug and unplug gear.
JeezyMcNuggles
Inactive
- Feb 23, 2018
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Nope. Go for it. It's far worse to use cheap cables of any kind. Then to worry about a type of connector that has been in constant use since before the electric guitar was invented. And is still in use today.
Well, it's not unusual for products to come with warnings that are overly cautious. The last time I bought a bass, it came with a warning that it might give me cancer. I'd never heard of this risk before, so I thought it was worth starting a conversation here.
