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Double Bass Ron Carter

#41
Basically, it's easy to talk ****. ESPECIALLY when whoever you're talking **** about isn't in the same room (and you're not in the same league, but that's another point).

Whatever. RC is human being like the rest of us, NOT some gold icon. There's stuff that speaks to each of us (maybe even different stuff) and stuff that doesn't, that's fine. I'm pretty sure it all means something to HIM and that's kind of all that matters.

I can dig MODE FOR JOE and hate the piccolo bass stuff, but Ron is Ron and the deep **** that he has recorded and played but not recorded is still deep.
 
#42
Ed Fuqua said:
Basically, it's easy to talk ****. ESPECIALLY when whoever you're talking **** about isn't in the same room (and you're not in the same league, but that's another point).
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Man, that's what gets me. I sometimes get concerned when this goes on at TB (or as I call it, TS when it does happen). A noob may pop in and read a post out of context, which is very common, and here's this "I heard this and I heard that" about someones attitude in some unspecific arena or date.
I loved Ron with Miles and many other players. I will not listen to him play the piccolo bass because it is so out it makes me feel embarrased for him and everyone involved in those projects.
 
#44
I think we need to bring this so-called teacher out in public for a flogging. :mad::p

RC's playing needs no defense. If you can't hear the beauty innit, then there's something wrong with you. As for his piccolo playing... well I do enjoy it, not all the time mind you, but it's not as awful to every one. I like listening to the message, not just the delivery.
 
#45
Ed Fuqua said:
Basically, it's easy to talk ****. ESPECIALLY when whoever you're talking **** about isn't in the same room (and you're not in the same league, but that's another point).
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He's an icon and of course, a great player.

Everybody has a bad day once in awhile. Obviously Ron is a very well known public person, at least in jazz circles. That typically means that a lot of people who don't know him think they know him on a personal level. I would assume that enduring often very uninformed questions from people who think they know you and want a piece of you can be trying and involves lots of grace and good humor.

A working musicians life is not always easy. Even the most patient, kind and altruistic person can get a little snippy after a long day of travel, sound checks, bad food, hotel food and weeks away from home. IMHO
 
#47
1975. Great American Music Hall, SF. Ron on bass with the old B-15 tube amp. Roland Hanna on piano. Ben Riley on kit. Frank Wess on winds. Changed my life. Ron played a solo bass set that said so much, I'm still trying to get to the end of the story he told with his composition/improvisation.

In the same time period RC was in the midst of making some really tacky recordings with CTI. "Business is business", and RC needs to eat too.
 
#49
It's funny, but when I was in my teens, I didn't dig Ron because I couldn't stand his soloing. (I still don't---I can see the death threaths coming) I was too stupid to understand that, from 1960 to maybe '68 he is one of the biggest influences on bass in a rhythm section. To me, he almost single-handedly changed the concept of swing feel after say, Ray or PC. He had this forward propusion-infront of the beat thing, but somehow it was also LEGATO. None of the Ray or PC "bounce" or lilt. I'm not criticizing Ray or PC, but Ron really defined a new approach. His use of octaves and larger intervals in walking---pedal tones----breaking up the rhythm in different ways----using space---were to my ears, ground breaking.The Miles stuff, ALL of the Blue Note stuff---wow. Speak Like a Child----his walking with Micky Rocker on The Sorcerer--that's as heavy as it gets.
 
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#51
One of the things I dig about Mr. Carter as a musician is that both his soloing and his "target" recording sound have changed over time. Each has become more refined and more interesting (to these ears) in the past fifteen years. Compare, for example, Mr. Bow Tie (1995) or The Golden Striker (2001) to Yellow & Green or VSOP and the difference is clear. But through it all, he has maintained his powerful trademark driving, legato approach and the personal note choices which Mike A discussed above.

In short, he's maintained the aspects which many of us perceive as strengths (and how!) and addressed other aspects which some of us enjoy less. I doubt that's any accident: I bet he works hard.
 
#52
woolysock said:
Check out Ron Carter with Miles Davis: Live in Berlin or better yet the double CD from Carnegie Hall with George Coleman on tenor. The guy is fast, smooth, loose, tight and amazing. If you can play like that you've earned some respect and surely some deference.

Then there's all the stuff he did for CTI. He had a habit of squeezing out quarter tones, sliding in and out of tune, that some people didn't dig. Personally I thought his playing here was ultra-cool. Check out the Stanley Turrentine CD: Don't Mess with Mr T and Turrentine's version of Sugar with RC on bass. That's some funky, stanky super-cool bass playing.

RC is at the top of my list of bass player heroes.
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Another great CTI recording with Ron is "Gerry Mulligan and Chet Baker - Carnegie Hall Concert"
 
#53
When the Miles stuff came out with Herbie, Ron and Tony back there it influenced the hell out of how we approached our section playing in jazz, as others have said....doubling up the time, bring it back down and cutting it in half. Those pedals Ron would use as a springboard into a heavy groove behind the solosists affected my playing big time. Actually, during this period, Don Thompson heard me on a Richie Cole record called "Bossa Nova Eyes". At my home he said.. "Ron Carter is gonna hate you". I still use some of those things in my section playing, especially with horns up front.

However, I remain mystified about those Piccolo Bass sides. I just don't get that.
 
#54
Ron plays a really great solo on this video:

One of the things I love about his playing is that he uses a lot of really simple harmonic ideas that sound great. On this one instead of playing G7 | C7 | F | F | he plays G7/B | C7/Bb | F/A | Bb7 | etc. It's a pretty obvious substitution, but a lot of people probably wouldn't think to do that on this tune. Then at the end when he's playing turnarounds instead of G- | C7 | A- | D7 etc. he plays G- | Abdim | A- | Bb7 | G7/B | C7 | A7/C# | D7

Like someone said earlier, I didn't appreciate how great Ron is when I was starting out because he isn't as dynamic of a soloist as Ray Brown or Paul Chambers, although he's probably a more versatile soloist than they are. But when you really check him out it's obvious why he's the man:)

As for the piccolo bass thing...I've heard that Ron really wants to be recognized as the leader when it's his band. So he hired Buster to play bass and he played the melodies and solos on piccolo bass. These days he uses a piano trio with a percussionist and the vibe is pretty mellow so the bass can still have a leadership role--same basic concept but a little more subtle:)
 
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#55
msw said:
The interesting thing for me is that Ron Carter's solos are made up of actual jazz lines and melodies. I don't hear any of what Jaco called "finger wiggling". As has been discussed many times, bass solos often can be faulted for their lack of musical content. When, for example, you hear the duo record RC made with Cedar Walton 15 years ago or so, you hear solid jazz melodies articulated with all kinds of slurs and ghost notes which I personally like. I will admit that RC is not at the top of my list for soloing, but I think that he can solo and really well, not to mention what a giant he is in the history of jazz bass playing and the music in general.
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I think the last thing on the list for being a solid bassist is soloing. The best bassists don't need to solo. The articulations you mention are solos in themselves, IMO. The solo I mentioned in my previous post reflects what you mention about RC's solos. In one solo he told the history of Jazz from the beginning to the explorations that are still in process now. The man knows, understands, and loves Music. Period.
And most of those records he made with CTI suck. It wasn't his fault. Shoot me then.:D
 
#57
But you have to look at it in the context of a working bassist. An average bass player in a quartet at a jazz gig will have MAYBE one or two solos a night. If you're in a big band, you can probably forget about it unless you're the band leader. Soloing is a great skill to have, and players who are truly GREAT probably have great solo chops; but it is definitely not the most important part of playing IMO.
 
#59
Flanning said:
But you have to look at it in the context of a working bassist. An average bass player in a quartet at a jazz gig will have MAYBE one or two solos a night. If you're in a big band, you can probably forget about it unless you're the band leader. Soloing is a great skill to have, and players who are truly GREAT probably have great solo chops; but it is definitely not the most important part of playing IMO.
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I understand the sentiment here but as a working bassist I wholeheartedly disagree. It is true that as far as getting hired your ability to lay it down outweighs your solo chops. BUT part of being a working bassist is being as 'total package' as possible. I rarely ask for solos but am always ready to throw down if pointed to. Sometimes it is a handful of times a night. Sometimes it is every song. Being able to lay down a sick groove AND solo your butt off makes you even more marketable. Those people are going to get calls before the ones that can just lay it down.

Oh and PeeDubb. Ballads are my favorite tunes to solo on!
 

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