[ROOKIE] Need advice/information

[bartlebee]

Rookie bassist here. Jumped on bass to join my friends' band. I've never played any string instruments before. I'm picking up the playing pretty easily, and setting up the gear is too easy, but I'm TOTALLY CONFUSED on gear setups when it comes to parallel cab connections and such. The frequencies/ohms stuff loses my understanding.

All my gear was handed down to me. Currently my setup is as follows (we play hardcore/metal/screamo):

head - Behringer Ultrabass BX4500H (450 watts)
cab - Ampeg SVT 4x10 (8 ohms, 500 watts capable)
bass - Ibanez GSR-200
pedals - MXR M-80, tuner

Some specific questions are:

1) I'm looking to start upgrading some gear. What are some suggestions for priority upgrades? I was thinking the bass itself first, since it's pretty much a beginner's bass IMO. Maybe the head second. Behringer seems like a more affordable, lower end gear company. Maybe I'm wrong about that?

2) Dual-Cab? I was thinking of adding a second cab, a 2x10, to sit on top of my ampeg. I can run this in parallel, I'm assuming. Would I plug my head into BOTH cabs? (left output of head to left input of first cab, and right output of head to right input of second cab?) Or just run them as a series (head -> first cab -> second cab)?

3) Power question - If my head produces 450 watts max, and my ampeg is capable up to 500, does that imply that even if I peak out on my head, I shouldn't really worry about damage to the cab?


Again, I'm totally new and confused to the power/electrical/compatibility factors of playing bass. If there is already a thread devoted to a lot of these questions, I apologize in advance.

 

[Bigskybassguy]

First question from everyone will be: What's your budget?
My first comment would be to avoid a Combo.
Google a little about "adding up" impedance... Speaker Impedance
for example two 8 ohm cabs will =4 ohms, and if your amp says it's happy to run 2 or 4 ohms, you're good. But it only can handle 4 or 8 ohms, don't start adding cabs and plug in 2.6 or 2 ohms; something might go pop in the head.

Regarding damage to your cab, I'd always worry about damage, especially with a pedal or two creating wacky transients and distortion. With clean bass power, not so much.

But I agree with Pcake below... if you're happy with your rig, it's MUCH better to take all your current "new rig" money and mail it to me: Brad at 3676 Pierce Parkway, Billings, Montana.

 

[pcake]

what - if any - are the shortcomings of your current set-up? is it loud enough, are you happy with your tone?

btw, you could probably manage to damage your speakers if you worked at it. use your ears, not power ratings, to determine if your speakers are having problems. not all manufacturers measure their power the same way and there are other factors that can be at play, too.

 

[Bass_Pounder]

1) I'm looking to start upgrading some gear. What are some suggestions for priority upgrades? I was thinking the bass itself first, since it's pretty much a beginner's bass IMO. Maybe the head second. Behringer seems like a more affordable, lower end gear company. Maybe I'm wrong about that?

2) Dual-Cab? I was thinking of adding a second cab, a 2x10, to sit on top of my ampeg. I can run this in parallel, I'm assuming. Would I plug my head into BOTH cabs? (left output of head to left input of first cab, and right output of head to right input of second cab?) Or just run them as a series (head -> first cab -> second cab)?

3) Power question - If my head produces 450 watts max, and my ampeg is capable up to 500, does that imply that even if I peak out on my head, I shouldn't really worry about damage to the cab?

1 - Yes, some of your equipment is "entry level". However, that does not mean bad. Tone, feel, etc. are all personal taste based, and if it sounds good to you - then it is good.

2 - Your head can handle a minimum of 4 ohms. That means you can add another 8 ohm cab to what you already have. However, adding a 2X10 to a 4X10 that are of equal impedance (both 8 ohm) you will be splitting the power evenly between the 2 cabs. That means the individual speakers in the 2X10 are getting twice the power of the speakers in your 4X10, and put them in risk of damage.

3 - Wattage ratings on cabs are the thermal limit for the voice coil to burn out. It is NOT real world bass frequency power handling ratings. Depending on your volume and use of low end EQ, you can cause damage at levels below 500w. Additionally, your heads rating is not the MAX it can output. It is the rating for "clean" output. If you push it, your amp can exceed it's rating level as it clips and goes into higher levels of distortion.

 

[bartlebee]

First question from everyone will be: What's your budget?
My first comment would be to avoid a Combo.
Google a little about "adding up" impedance... Speaker Impedance
for example two 8 ohm cabs will =4 ohms, and if your amp says it's happy to run 2 or 4 ohms, you're good. But it only can handle 4 or 8 ohms, don't start adding cabs and plug in 2.6 or 2 ohms; something might go pop in the head.

But I agree with Pcake below... if you're happy with your rig, it's MUCH better to take all your current "new rig" money and mail it to me: Brad at 3676 Pierce Parkway, Billings, Montana.

Check's in the mail!

Thanks for the information, everyone. To be honest, it's the guitar that I feel most inclined to replace. I've changed strings multiple times and such, and the higher strings simply don't punch through enough. Perhaps that's the pickups? It seems to mainly just be my A-string that doesn't punch through. I also get HELLA feedback if I'm anywhere near the rig. I'm not sure if it's my "cheap" bass, or perhaps the noise gate on my MXR pedal not working correctly. My head is starting to wear out to the point that the volume knob crackles with every slight adjustment, and sound completely cuts out if the volume knob is below the 50% mark. The cab is perfectly sufficient, but as my band starts to expand out to larger areas, I was hoping to bring along a more "professional" look in size and appearance, and not look like I just came out of a garage band.

 

[stajki]

hey bartlebee,
you could change amp or bass or both, i propose gallien krueger rb 700 amp, you can get nice deal on used equipment just try it first. Fender PJ, precision used vintage RI usa or japan kick ass! i heard tokai hard puncher is great too, but have no experience.

you might try sansamp also, i never played mxr pre maybe the same, but who knows.

all amps can handle 8 ohm or 4 ohm, 2 ohm not. so you can add 2x10 8 ohm cabinet to your rig that will be hard core enough.
enjoy XXX

 

[beans-on-toast]

Visit retailers and try everything that you can, imstruments and amps. A good instrument that is properly set up will help you learn to play better. At the same time, you need an amp that will meet you needs.

A good rule of thumb is that the RMS rating of the cab sould be at least twice the RMS output rating of the amp. So if you amp is rated at 450 watts RMS, look for a cab rated at least 900W. Otherwise, listen to the cab for signs of mechanical distortion. If you hear it, turn down the volume or the bass tone settings.

 

[abarson]

The Ibanez you have is a respectable beginners model: Ibanez basses GSR 200 - SR 300 - SR 400 QM - SR 500 - SR 600 - G 104

+1 to what beans-on-toast said about getting your bass correctly setup. I would add that you need to take your bass with you to a retailer to compare against other makes and models in order to get a better idea of what works and what is lacking in your current bass.

 

[Hotblack]

For the crackle on the volume knob, a little cleaner (spray type for potentiometers available anywhere electronics accessories are sold) might solve that problem.

For your cutting through problem: Personally, I would try some new pickups and/or new preamp in the bass. Which ones? Well... to echo what others have said, try out all the gear you can. Start to take notes of instruments you like and those that you don't. What was the body wood? What kind of pickups? Active or passive? You'll start to get an idea of what works for you and what doesn't.

 

[Qlanq]

I got sick and tired of people replying to posts like this with: "Turn the bass and treble down and boost the mids".
It does work though. One the best bits of advice I tried out for myself.
That Behringer should be OK, you could look for a used Genz Benz Shuttle 6.
I've got a 9.2 and won't ever need another amp. Does a lot in a little package.

 

[JimmyM]

3 - Wattage ratings on cabs are the thermal limit for the voice coil to burn out. It is NOT real world bass frequency power handling ratings.

It is for the Ampeg 410's They take darn close to an honest 500w before fartout.

I think if you upgrade your stuff, you are on the right track, except for the 410/210 combination. I know some people like it, but I don't get it. Between the volume imbalance and the overall decreased power handling of the entire rig, I can't use anything but matching cabs when I use two. I'd rather stay with a single 410 than add a 210. And really, for the vast majority of us, even if we're in loud bands, a 410 is plenty.

 

[bartlebee]

Thanks again, everyone! I've been doing more reading and experimenting at Guitar Center, and I've decided that the 410 cab is plenty for now. I really only wanted a bigger rig to look more "established", especially for bigger shows when we play with national acts, etc. But the 410 is plenty enough for sound and power. More often than not, I'm going direct into the venue's PA through a DI box. I've also come to determine that a lot of the feed back and crackling is from the head. The mid-frequency knobs were to blame, for when I turned them down/off, the feedback became almost extinct. It's been beat to sh*t with all the transportation, and it was a lower end model to begin with. I also believe that the pickups/input jack on my bass are also getting worn out. To be honest, I don't see the point in replacing/upgrading the pickups on this bass. I'd rather just upgrade and get an entirely new bass (Looking at a Schecter Stiletto Stealth or a Schecter Omen Extreme. Any personal reviews on either of these, or Schecter basses in general is appreciated.).

TL;DR - New bass, then a new head. Don't need a cab until this one blows, really. I can't wait for my tax refund haha.

 

[dukeorock]

Sounds like you have the right idea to me

 

[bartlebee]

UPDATE: I did end up making a purchase for a new bass. I went with the Schecter Stiletto Stealth. Next up: new head. Looking at a Hartke LH1000. I've seen a lot of positive reviews on this head. Thoughts?