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Rosewood vs Ebony Fingerboard Hardness

tfer

tfer

Jan 1, 2014
3,473
4,832
#1
More than 2 years after joining this board, I've finally started my own thread...!

Usually, there's more than enough reading material to keep a player busy for weeks, but if I have one pet peeve, it's the belief that Rosewood is somehow too soft to be used as a fingerboard wood on a fretless bass.

The most commonly used Rosewood today (because of availability) is Indian Rosewood (also known as East Indian Rosewood). Ebony is a beautiful looking and sounding wood, which is perfect for musical instruments, and has been used for centuries because of that, and the world is running out of it.

Rosewood is the most common replacement, because of it's warm (although different) tone, appearance, and it's strength.

The Janka Hardwood Test is a procedure where a steel ball 0.444" in diameter is pressed into a sample of wood to half of it's depth. The pressure required is measured in foot pounds.

Macassar Ebony, one of the only species still available, requires 3220 foot pounds of pressure to embed the steel ball. Incredibly strong. Unfortunately, supplies are becoming increasingly rare and as it disappears further, will get more and more expensive.

Indian Rosewood requires 2440 foot pounds in order to embed the same ball. Clearly soft, but still incredibly hard. It is a native wood in Indonesia where many instruments are made.

Contrast those numbers with Black Maple (a native American hardwood), a wood many people believe to be harder than Rosewood, with a Janka rating of 1180 foot pounds.

This link is great, in that you can scroll through most hardwoods and instantly see the test results.

Invalid Link Removed
 
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#2
Well, available sources are becoming rarer to come across, but one would hope that the people harvesting ebony would replant the trees after the deforestation of an area. A lot of luthiers and wood craftsman frequent type of wood and I know at least a few foreign governments replant trees so they don't face economic consequences.

Unfortunately, no one will know any moderation until governments start stepping in to say it's endangered.

In 20 years ebony will probably be a resource used only for a release of "world class" instruments only to be released once every decade, and your Indian Rosewood will be the norm. I wish ebony needed some sort of "crafting license" to obtain. I don't want to be in a world where ebony is a limited edition product, but I don't want it to be obtainable by just anyone either.
 
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#5
I believe the issue some have with rosewood is not that it's too soft (it's much harder than maple, as previously stated), but rather that it usually has little to no finish to protect it. Unlike the outrageously hard ebony, it's not always quite sturdy enough to be used "naked", and I've heard horror stories of frets popping out of rosewood boards after a long period of use. It's more of an exception than the rule, but I'd personally take nearly any other material over unfinished rosewood just to be on the safe side. That said, most of my instruments have RW boards, and I've yet to encounter any issues (other than the board on my Squier Jazz looking kind of nasty).
 
#9
LamarKafka said:
I believe the issue some have with rosewood is not that it's too soft (it's much harder than maple, as previously stated), but rather that it usually has little to no finish to protect it. Unlike the outrageously hard ebony, it's not always quite sturdy enough to be used "naked", and I've heard horror stories of frets popping out of rosewood boards after a long period of use. It's more of an exception than the rule, but I'd personally take nearly any other material over unfinished rosewood just to be on the safe side. That said, most of my instruments have RW boards, and I've yet to encounter any issues (other than the board on my Squier Jazz looking kind of nasty).
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I've played for 30+ years, and my basses have always had rosewood boards. Never had a fret pop. Nobody I've ever known has ever had one.

I'm sure it's happened, but I'd say it's so rare, that calling it an exception is probably overstating it.

I lightly oil the boards every year or so, and even that might be too much. Rosewood contains oil naturally and any sealant would cause more harm than good.
 
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#10
Jeff Scott said:
W&S is a magazine produced by Taylor Guitars and is mailed to owners of their instruments and can often be found at Taylor dealers, so I am not sure a link would be very helpful, here. Try contacting Taylor and see if they would send you back issues.

Bob Taylor has done much in the way of proper forestry practices regarding ebony harvesting and replanting, along with providing better work conditions and training to Camaroonians.

This video is a few years old but still relevant.
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I really admire what Taylor is doing, by harvesting what used to be left to rot, but the necessity of doing so simply amplifies the fact that ebony is almost gone and as working musicians, we need to get used to living without it. Rosewood is a very acceptable alternative and manufacturers are using it without qualms. The whole point of this thread was to educate bassists regarding its incredible hardness, and to begin to put an end to the myth that it's somehow too soft to use without frets.

I've used rosewood boards with stainless steel rounds for decades without appreciable wear.
 
#12
Rosewood is durable but like most unfinished hardwoods it needs to be conditioned with the proper oil as part of a maintenance cycle. If you never oil a rosewood fretboard the natural oils in it will eventually dry out. The oil in the wood is what keeps it from absorbing moisture. If the oil is allowed to dry out of the wood then it's ability to absorb moisture will increase like a sponge which will cause it to expand and/or warp. In extreme cases frets can pop out of the wood (usually at the edges). It may take years for that to happen but that is why you're supposed to oil unfinished fretboards. Besides, a freshly oiled fretboard looks nice. Maple boards are typically coated and therefore oiling doesn't apply to those.

I wouldn't be concerned about wearing out a fretboard. Actually, I would consider wearing out a fretboard to be a badge of honor and would reward myself by buying a new bass.
 
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#15
The foot pound (ft-lb or ft*lb) is a distance times a force and is a unit of torque. Pressure is measured in force per unit area, such as pound per square inch (lb/in^2 or PSI). The Janko hardness is measured in pounds (lb), which is sometimes specified as pound force (lbf, with the "f" often written as a subscript). That's a force, not a pressure.
 
#16
tfer said:
I've played for 30+ years, and my basses have always had rosewood boards. Never had a fret pop. Nobody I've ever known has ever had one.

I'm sure it's happened, but I'd say it's so rare, that calling it an exception is probably overstating it.

I lightly oil the boards every year or so, and even that might be too much. Rosewood contains oil naturally and any sealant would cause more harm than good.
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Ditto here. Never had a problem with any rosewood fingerboard I've ever owned. Nobody I know has had any problems with theirs either. And I've got over 40 years in as a bass player. Some minimal maintenance with a little lemon or linseed oil is all that's required.
 
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#17
Macassar ebony is amazing. Best thing for me since it is so hard to get Brazilian rosewood. I have had other rosewood fingerboards and they never really did it for me. I guess the key is to know what you like and keep getting that. It takes away a lot of the options out there and simplifies the buying process.
 
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#18
Indian and Indonesian Rosewood are the most common today, and both are incredibly hard.

Ebony is getting more and more rare, and there will be a huge price premium to get it.

My point with this thread is to try and end the misinformation that Rosewood is somehow too soft to be used with fretless instruments. It's simply not true.
 
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#19
There's also Bolivian Rosewood, aka Pau Ferro, though I don't know what its janka rating is. Makes for a decent fretless board though.

I wonder if we'll start seeing a rise in composite materials. I know some manufacturers are playing around with phenolic/ebonol boards but I've seen only two that offer it on sub $1000 basses (Wolf and import MTD). Personally, I would love to have a fingerboard that is as hard and looks as good as ebony that isn't actually ebony. If phenolic boards are just that then maybe that's the way to go.
 
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#20
Dan B said:
There's also Bolivian Rosewood, aka Pau Ferro, though I don't know what its janka rating is. Makes for a decent fretless board though.

I wonder if we'll start seeing a rise in composite materials. I know some manufacturers are playing around with phenolic/ebonol boards but I've seen only two that offer it on sub $1000 basses (Wolf and MTD). Personally, I would love to have a fingerboard that is as hard and looks as good as ebony that isn't actually ebony. If phenolic boards are just that then maybe that's the way to go.
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The Cort Curbow basses have Ebanol fingerboards. You can pick those up for under $300 most places.
 

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