Running a long TRS cable from a snake...

[H K]

Snakes... Why'd it have to be snakes?

 

[organworthyplayer337]

Well, it's a single mix coming from main out R, so it is mono.

It assume they are using L-out for FOH, and R-out for the IEM feed. To get the levels to feed, they are panning the channels a little to the right.

BTW, @organworthyplayer337, are you using the headphones out on the X-32 to drive the phones?

I will be using the aux outs (2 for a stereo mix).

 

[monkeyfinger]

I will be using the aux outs (2 for a stereo mix).

I have this mixer. The aux outs are not going to drive your headphones. You will need a headphone amp. Instead, you use the headphones out on the front of the X-32. Just set the input channel to solo, or send it directly to the main outs. Are you familiar with configuring the X-32?

 

[organworthyplayer337]

I have this mixer. The aux outs are not going to drive your headphones. You will need a headphone amp. Instead, you use the headphones out on the front of the X-32. Just set the input channel to solo, or send it directly to the main outs. Are you familiar with configuring the X-32?

Yes, getting familiar with everything as we speak. I should've mentioned that the aux outs will be going into a Shure PSM900 and to a receiver pack from there.

 

[monkeyfinger]

Yes, getting familiar with everything as we speak. I should've mentioned that the aux outs will be going into a Shure PSM900 and to a receiver pack from there.

Yup. That will work.

 

[organworthyplayer337]

Yup. That will work.

Sweet. Glad that you have one too, cause I'm sure that I will have more questions about this thing in the future

 

[mike buzzetti]

FYI - TRS and XLR are normally MONO not stereo because they are balanced , there may be custom applications that use them as a stereo cable but that is an exception IME

 

[Real Soon]

The principle of balanced line is the same, regardless of what sort of connectors are used.

Yeah I worded that poorly (multitasking). Literally the only difference is the shape of the connectors, assuming the source & recipient are balanced-friendly

 

[byacey]

Yeah I worded that poorly (multitasking). Literally the only difference is the shape of the connectors, assuming the source & recipient are balanced-friendly

It's seldom stereo line level is sent within the same shield cable. The inter-conductor capacitance tends to smear the stereo signal between the left and right.

 

[s0c9]

Ok. catching up on this thread ... w/ @organworthyplayer337
Sounds like this is a "church" system (?) w/ Harbinger mixer at FOH and 16-ch snake w/ TRS returns .. that you have added an X32R + PSM900 for IEM's (?) ?
"Assuming" that is correct.. some suggestions.
You need a feed for "channels" connected to the Harbinger that are NOT fed in via the snake (?)
So, TRS snake return into somewhere on the X32 - possibly the X32 AUX returns (which are TRS).
You can test that out by running a TRS feed into the X32 at home and also trying a TS (mono) feed. DO try this at home first! You do NOT want to be fiddling w/ this stuff at rehearsal and impacting others time.

DO NOT use the X32R's AUX outs to feed the PSM900. (trust me on this!)
Use XLR cables to connect the PSM900 - using a pair of the 8 outputs - to give you a "stereo" IEM mix. If you were running FOH off the X32 you could use OUTS 1 thru 6 for this, but since it appears you are using the X32R solely as a monitor mixer, hook the PSM900 up to OUTS 7/8 - the MAIN outs. This will make things MUCH easier as ALL your input channels will be going there anyway and you can adjust channel levels and pan them for that ideal stereo IEM mix.

Thoughts:
Most drummers (IIRC you said you were the drummer somewhere in this thread) do NOT need wireless IEM's.. as drummers do not move around the stage they are static.
With the X32R, get a P16M and use a CAT5 (network) cable to hook it up to the X32R's Ultranet port. Sit it on a tray/box by your kit and you have instant control over the 16 inputs on the X32R. Sell the SPM900 and pocket $600 in savings!
Or you could purchase a Midas DP48 and do the same - but it's a little more complex device than the P16M and would connect to the AES50 (A or B) port on the back.
Either way, you do NOT need a PSM900.

 

[s0c9]

FYI - TRS and XLR are normally MONO not stereo because they are balanced , there may be custom applications that use them as a stereo cable but that is an exception IME

Sorry, don't want to appear picky, but I disagree..
TRS jacks are most commonly used as STEREO jacks for audio.. look at ANY headphone jack, they are TRS connectors and not mono.
In the older analog live audio world they USED to be for effect SEND/RETURN connections with a "Y" cable. One side was sent to the external device, the other was return from that device.

The fact that they are balanced (like XLR) and CAN be used as a single channel (MONO) feed does not make them normally mono.

 

[mike buzzetti]

Sorry, don't want to appear picky, but I disagree..
TRS jacks are most commonly used as STEREO jacks for audio.. look at ANY headphone jack, they are TRS connectors and not mono.
In the older analog live audio world they USED to be for effect SEND/RETURN connections with a "Y" cable. One side was sent to the external device, the other was return from that device.

The fact that they are balanced (like XLR) and CAN be used as a single channel (MONO) feed does not make them normally mono.

Um headphones are not cables , so I dont count them as such just saying , A Y cable is a splitter that has a stereo end , I guess I should have said PRO audio ? 6 of 1 half dozen aother, All good .

 

[organworthyplayer337]

Ok. catching up on this thread ... w/ @organworthyplayer337
Sounds like this is a "church" system (?) w/ Harbinger mixer at FOH and 16-ch snake w/ TRS returns .. that you have added an X32R + PSM900 for IEM's (?) ?
"Assuming" that is correct.. some suggestions.
You need a feed for "channels" connected to the Harbinger that are NOT fed in via the snake (?)
So, TRS snake return into somewhere on the X32 - possibly the X32 AUX returns (which are TRS).
You can test that out by running a TRS feed into the X32 at home and also trying a TS (mono) feed. DO try this at home first! You do NOT want to be fiddling w/ this stuff at rehearsal and impacting others time.

DO NOT use the X32R's AUX outs to feed the PSM900. (trust me on this!)
Use XLR cables to connect the PSM900 - using a pair of the 8 outputs - to give you a "stereo" IEM mix. If you were running FOH off the X32 you could use OUTS 1 thru 6 for this, but since it appears you are using the X32R solely as a monitor mixer, hook the PSM900 up to OUTS 7/8 - the MAIN outs. This will make things MUCH easier as ALL your input channels will be going there anyway and you can adjust channel levels and pan them for that ideal stereo IEM mix.

Thoughts:
Most drummers (IIRC you said you were the drummer somewhere in this thread) do NOT need wireless IEM's.. as drummers do not move around the stage they are static.
With the X32R, get a P16M and use a CAT5 (network) cable to hook it up to the X32R's Ultranet port. Sit it on a tray/box by your kit and you have instant control over the 16 inputs on the X32R. Sell the SPM900 and pocket $600 in savings!
Or you could purchase a Midas DP48 and do the same - but it's a little more complex device than the P16M and would connect to the AES50 (A or B) port on the back.
Either way, you do NOT need a PSM900.

I appreciate your thoughts. I play bass/guitar and sing as well. Just depends on the gig. And I've been had the PSM900, so I am going to integrate it into the system instead of buying a new unit. This system is for anywhere I go, the situation I explained is a church, but I play gigs elsewhere every now and then.

 

[Wasnex]

Sorry, don't want to appear picky, but I disagree..
TRS jacks are most commonly used as STEREO jacks for audio.. look at ANY headphone jack, they are TRS connectors and not mono.
In the older analog live audio world they USED to be for effect SEND/RETURN connections with a "Y" cable. One side was sent to the external device, the other was return from that device.

The fact that they are balanced (like XLR) and CAN be used as a single channel (MONO) feed does not make them normally mono.

Agreed, the TRS is not inherently stereo or mono. It totally depends on the application.

 

[mike buzzetti]

Agreed, the TRS is not inherently stereo or mono. It totally depends on the application.

In PRO / studio settings they are 99% mono balanced , in consumer it varies.

 

[Wasnex]

Um headphones are not cables , so I dont count them as such just saying , A Y cable is a splitter that has a stereo end , I guess I should have said PRO audio ? 6 of 1 half dozen aother, All good .

Probably the most common use for TRS in pro audio is insert cables. Inserts carry two channels but they are not stereo.

In this application it's actually still mono. The two lines are carrying the signal at different points in the signal path. Also the two signals are flowing in opposite directions. One is in and the other is out.

The same cable can be used to break out a headphone output to 1/4" TR cables.

 

[Wasnex]

In PRO / studio settings they are 99% mono balanced , in consumer it varies.

It varies in pro audio as well. Generally only the lowest level of pro audio uses TRS balanced auxes. Higher level gear almost always uses XLR. I believe years ago I came across high end snakes that had both on the Inputs, but these were rare. This used to make since because some boards used 1/4" TRS for the line level inputs and XLR for the mic level inputs.

Also pro audio generally uses TRS to TR insert cables. AFAIK these cables were common even on high-quality mixers. You can also get TRS to XLR insert cables. I believe some of the better mixers used individual XLR to XLR cables for the sends and returns.

The first digital mixer I learned to use was the Yamaha O1V. The Aux outs are all TRS. I used TRS to XLR adapters on the board as our snake and all of our outboard gear used XLR.

My old Allen & Heath MixWizard has TRS on the Auxes as well, and it also uses TRS on the inserts. I also own some old low end Crown power amps and other rack gear that is 1/4" TRS. All of it is pretty low-end. My snake has XLR on inputs and sends. I have a list of adapters I need to order if I ever want to use this stuff.

 

[monkeyfinger]

The advantage of TRS for balanced signals is that they are smaller than XLR. This allows them to be packed closer together. XLR usually includes some type of locking mechanism which prevents unintented disconnects. This is very helpful in live situations.

 

[WayneP]

A two-page thread for a simple question! Just goes to highlight a pet peeve of mine, the way the industry recycles the same connectors for multiple non-compatible applications. The result is lots of confusion.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

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[s0c9]

I appreciate your thoughts. I play bass/guitar and sing as well. Just depends on the gig. And I've been had the PSM900, so I am going to integrate it into the system instead of buying a new unit. This system is for anywhere I go, the situation I explained is a church, but I play gigs elsewhere every now and then.

No worries - but that is why I asked what your intended use was.
It's tough to provide "guidance" when one gets the facts in pieces parts! But I understand now, the why on the PSM900!