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Running Distortion - Amp Risks

DopplerShift

DopplerShift

Apr 19, 2005
281
42
48
Chicago Area
www.johnmarkese.com
#1
I did an hour long search on running distortion and its effects on amplifiers and only dug up a few applicable threads.

It seems that running a disortion pedal can be dangerous mainly to your cabinet's tweeter except for the FX loop inputs which sounded like it could be damaging to your amp head. I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong.

I have a russian Big Muff Pi and plan on running My EBMM Stingray through an Eden WT600 bridged (600w->8ohms)Avatar Neo 210 (8ohm/600w). Sometimes I will use an Avatar BH115 Kappa Pro (4ohm/600w) and run the head in stereo (2x300w->8ohm/4ohm). I do use my tweeters.

Can anybody give me any advice on the risks of this setup? If I ever NEED to (which I most likely will not), do you think I can go past 12 o clock, esp in the bridged mode? What sorts of things should I look out for? Thanks.
 
#3
DopplerShift said:
It seems that running a disortion pedal can be dangerous mainly to your cabinet's tweeter except for the FX loop inputs which sounded like it could be damaging to your amp head. I'm no expert so correct me if I'm wrong.
Click to expand...
Never had an issue. Ever. There's a huge difference between clipping a head or a speaker, and running a clipped effect with controlled volume.

Case in point, if you listen to as much rock and metal as I do, maybe you'll have about 100,000+ hours of distorted guitars running through perfectly fine 12 year old bookshelf stereo speakers as well. :D
 
#5
joelb79 said:
yeah.. intentional clipping from a pedal is differnt from reaching the amplifiers limits and clipping the mosfets, causing speakers to move in a non-linear fasion.
Click to expand...

Not really. Either way you're sending a clipped waveform to the outputs. You only have a problem if you're sending too much juice to one or more components of the cab or if you're forcinga driver into overexcursion.
 
#7
For those who think there is a risk, could you explain what that risk is and what general safe operating levels would be? Also, what would be indications of unsafe usage?

The thing is I just got all this new gear, and with my old crappy stuff I didn't care if I beat the hell out of it. But I'm in it for the long haul with my new stuff. I am just looking for some guidelines and possible things to look out for.
 
#10
Mark Reccord said:
Exactly how is it different?
Click to expand...


Clipping an amp (SS) results in what is called "hard clipping", where the top and bottom of the waveform is effectively sliced right off. This leaves a flat spot at the top and bottom of each sound wave, which is the same as DC, which is BAD for speakers (especially tweeters).

Distortion effects, on the other hand, use much softer clipping that only rounds off the top of the signal. No flat spots, no DC, safe for speakers.



-Jono
 
#11
jsbach1982 said:
Clipping an amp (SS) results in what is called "hard clipping", where the top and bottom of the waveform is effectively sliced right off. This leaves a flat spot at the top and bottom of each sound wave, which is the same as DC, which is BAD for speakers (especially tweeters).

Distortion effects, on the other hand, use much softer clipping that only rounds off the top of the signal. No flat spots, no DC, safe for speakers.



-Jono
Click to expand...

Not true. There is no DC in a square wave, by the very definition of a wave. The speaker goes in and out exactly as many times as it would for a sine wave. DC means it doesn't alternate, again by definition.

As for distortion effects using "softer" clipping, that depends on the effect and how it is set.

Ask Mark about the experiments he has conducted.
 
#13
Probably the best way to think of this is that any distortion or fuzz effect simply outputs a waveform - just as an instrument does (synths ferinstance). Which the rig then reproduces. It's up to the user/mixer not to send that signal at a level that actually clips the power amp or demands more of the speaker system than it is able to handle thermally or excursion-wise.

As someone mentioned before, we listen to plenty of music with distorted guitars (and waveforms from synths that are of similar shape).
 
#14
greenboy said:
...snip...

As someone mentioned before, we listen to plenty of music with distorted guitars (and waveforms from synths that are of similar shape).
Click to expand...
Sure, but generally within the dynamic range of the power amp.

Clipping the power amp is not the same thing. Hence the undeniable increase in speaker damage incidence from power amp clipping regardless of the carefully accumulated scientific data available that says otherwise.

:D

Joe.
 
#16
Lowtonejoe said:
Sure, but generally within the dynamic range of the power amp.

Clipping the power amp is not the same thing. Hence the undeniable increase in speaker damage incidence from power amp clipping regardless of the carefully accumulated scientific data available that says otherwise.

:D

Joe.
Click to expand...
Waveform is waveform. What difference does it make if the power amp generates the waveform, or if it reproduces the same waveform fed into it externally? The only difference is that the external waveform can be turned up to the power amp clipping threshold, but also turned down, whereas power amp clipping occurs at a fixed amplitude determined by the amp design.
 
#17
jsbach1982 said:
Clipping an amp (SS) results in what is called "hard clipping", where the top and bottom of the waveform is effectively sliced right off. This leaves a flat spot at the top and bottom of each sound wave, which is the same as DC, which is BAD for speakers (especially tweeters).

Distortion effects, on the other hand, use much softer clipping that only rounds off the top of the signal. No flat spots, no DC, safe for speakers.



-Jono
Click to expand...
DC doesn't get to tweeters, since there is typically a blocking capacitor in the crossover.
 
#20
greenboy said:
You need to read and understand ALL that I said. Not just quote one bit without context. Otherwise your debating method resembles tilting at imaginary windmills ; }
Click to expand...

Um...yeah...windmills...

:eek:

TiltingWindmills.gif


Try to read my post without being defensive, it becomes much more reasonable.

:D

Joe.
 

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