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Running the PA in mono vs. stereo

N. Kentucky Bass

N. Kentucky Bass

Supporting Member
May 10, 2006
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Northern Kentucky
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#1
For typical smaller-to-mid sized venues, especially with small stages, my vote is for running the PA in mono mode. Even if a keyboard player is using stereo, it's hard to see how this sound field would project and be heard from a small stage. Maybe there's a benefit to running stereo if you're mainly pumping commercial recordings that are mixed that way through the PA? Are there other considerations? I'm interested in hearing pros and cons of mono vs. stereo through the PA for those of us not playing Madison Square Garden.
 
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#4
31HZ said:
Mono for everything except house music. Not many people are sitting in a place where a stereo mix will be a benefit, but many people will be somewhere that a stereo mix will make worse, IMO.
Click to expand...
I agree. You have to sit close to the middle ‘sweet spot’ to benefit from the stereo effect. The stereo keyboard effect through a PA is a non-issue. My Yamaha YC88 sounds better in my house in stereo, but does not sound the same though a large PA.
 
#5
100% agree that the benefits of stereo are small - its essential to mix everything centre so that everyone can hear it. A stereo mix will sound terrible to those at the sides. However running reverbs and choruses in stereo will either sound better or make little difference.

Running stereo would also (theoretically) give you the potential to treat the two sides differently if there's some quirk of the room that leads to feedback, or strange eq requirements... I'm thinking of those gigs where there's a pillar in a stupid place bouncing the sound straight back at you.

I guess my counterpoint is why would you NOT run the PA in stereo (assuming that you can). You need a set of cabs each side of the stage, and you need to run the cables to them. If you've only got a mono power amp then that's fine but if you're using active speakers the cost of running in stereo is one extra channel on the snake, and the stereo setup can do everything the mono one can, with added flexibility.

If you have a mono setup, that's fine. If you have a two (or more) channel setup, you can always send the same signal to everything if that's what sounds best.
 
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#6
I have since passed the torch of doing sound mix to younger band members, but I liked a little pan for two main vocals, and for two guitars. For vocals, I felt it brought a sence of space and matched their positions on stage. For guitars, it brought a little better separation.
Again, "little" is a key word here, as overdoing creates all that issues mentioned in the earlier posts.
 
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#7
Always stereo. Put a (stereo) reverb or delay on a lead vocal in a venue and that’s why. Vocals sounds miles better than a mono reverb wherever you sit/stand.

Don’t think of it as stereo, think of it a the ability to place things mid/side. In stereo you can hard pan overheads (just to create space), and get width on stereo electric guitar pedalboards. You can collapse everything to mono if you want - but it’s much easier to mix in stereo and create an engaging mix.
 
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#8
JamesGrant said:
Always stereo. Put a (stereo) reverb or delay on a lead vocal in a venue and that’s why. Vocals sounds miles better than a mono reverb wherever you sit/stand.

Don’t think of it as stereo, think of it a the ability to place things mid/side. In stereo you can hard pan overheads (just to create space), and get width on stereo electric guitar pedalboards. You can collapse everything to mono if you want - but it’s much easier to mix in stereo and create an engaging mix.
Click to expand...

So this reverb/delay effect on lead vocal is sonically apparent to the audience, even if the stage is small (e.g., 10-12 feet wide)?

My question popped up because I have an Electro-Voice EVOLVE 50M "stick array" that is currently set to mono. I'm adding another 50M and have been wondering whether to leave it in mono or move to stereo. Of course, I will experiment, but thought it would be helpful to solicit community comment for thinking fodder. I'm using a SoundCraft Ui24R digital mixer so it's easy to configure individual lines to mono or stereo. Maybe set the system to stereo, and leave all the outputs to mono except the vocal? Presuming it makes a difference on a small stage, etc....
 
#9
N. Kentucky Bass said:
So this reverb/delay effect on lead vocal is sonically apparent to the audience, even if the stage is small (e.g., 10-12 feet wide)?

My question popped up because I have an Electro-Voice EVOLVE 50M "stick array" that is currently set to mono. I'm adding another 50M and have been wondering whether to leave it in mono or move to stereo. Of course, I will experiment, but thought it would be helpful to solicit community comment for thinking fodder. I'm using a SoundCraft Ui24R digital mixer so it's easy to configure individual lines to mono or stereo. Maybe set the system to stereo, and leave all the outputs to mono except the vocal? Presuming it makes a difference on a small stage, etc....
Click to expand...
Think I understand you! On the ‘desk/brain’ you have, all the channels individually are mono, you can ‘link’ channels so a change in setting on one channel is matched automatically on the linked channel, so for keyboards or a guitar who has a Left and Right output you can apply volume changes or EQ adjustments to both Left and Right channels simultaneously. You can choose how to pan each channel in that pair, and that would depend on how the source was designed to be handled - some are best panned hard left and right and the mono sum Works best that way, others not. I would do that anyway even if the final output was a mono system. The FX returns on the Soundcraft are stereo so if you send a Center-panned mono vocal to the stereo reverb FX (I think it’s Lexcon branded reverb FX on that brain) you get a stereo FX return.
I’d go for two Evolv 50 anyway - as they say when something breaks ‘two is one, and one is none’.
But yes, the difference in having two speakers it’s obvious even if you run them in mono, the sound is different from a single sound source (nearly always better) and in that case I’d always mix stereo even if every channel was panned to center. (Of course - a bad mix in stereo is still a bad mix, and stereo reverb isn’t going to change that. But that’s a different story!)

So, I’d always go stereo in any venue, and - as a band bringing a PA to a gig, I’d always have at least two speakers - one will fail eventually, and two in stereo sounds much much better than a single speaker.

Finally yes - the effect is apparent even in long narrow spaces (of course there are obvious limits - a 1ft wide venue that is 200ft long, probably not. But if the speakers are positioned left and right of the performer(s) and a person in the audience has line of sight to the stage then yes. Even if the audience member are off centre or over one side or t’other.
 
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#10
We basically use our PA as a "mono" unit even though the connections are set up as stereo (R & L). It is an old school passive system, without powered speakers and no subs. My reasoning is that it balances the load on the power amps, it also allows us to pan a channel if needed (although I can't remember ever using it). The mixer is stereo, and we can use the power amps in stereo or bridged mono mode. Running the system in stereo keeps everything simple, we simply split the FOH R&L and the same for the monitors. The aux sends are mono, so we just split the signal.

Cheers
 
#11
All of my systems are set up for stereo. Specifically, for walk up music and effects returns. But I'll bring in keyboards and sometimes processed guitar in stereo. The important thing to remember is that the pan knob(s) is not a three-position switch. You can use it to provide a little space within the stereo image (think between 10:00 and 12:00) and then open it fully up if there is a lush pad or something that would benefit from it. And if you are fortunate enough to be working with an organist, a stereo mic'd Leslie is something to behold, tight or wide open! Working with smaller system in smaller rooms, I find that stereo can enlarge the sound without necessarily increasing the volume and not as many people are so far off axis that they can't hear both sides of the system. I never thought of stereo as depriving people to the extreme right or left of center of anything and mix with that in mind. But rather a little something extra for those more towards the centerline and me, as the mix engineer.
 
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#12
31HZ said:
Mono for everything except house music. Not many people are sitting in a place where a stereo mix will be a benefit, but many people will be somewhere that a stereo mix will make worse, IMO.
Click to expand...

Following that logic (which I agree with), the house music should be mono as well.

Ralf Hutter of Kraftwerk, when asked in an interview about 30 years ago whether their live shows were presented in stereo mixes, said the mix was strictly mono, noting that it was "more democratic."

However, K'werk now uses highly sophisticated multi-channel "immersive" mixes for their live shows now. Here's a glimpse of what that entails.

 
#15
When there is a dedicated sound person- stereo is fine.

If I'm that sound person, I tend to be very conservative with stereo effects and panning unless there is a reason. Common reasons: band likes to be spread across stereo field, stereo effects to audience or IEM mix likes more separation of players.

When I'm running sound while playing from the stage for a 4 piece at small gigs? It's effectively mono as everything is panned middle. I don't have time for any nonsense. I'm already probably doing too much.
 
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#17
The average person’s ears are about six inches apart. My desktop monitors are about six feet apart and the stereo effect is immersive.

A stereo sound field can have a pronounced effect to the listener as the brain computes spatial inferences based on the tiniest of differences.

A small stage doesn’t nullify the effect. I’d argue that it’s more discernible in a small venue than running stereo in a stadium where listeners might be only hearing one side of the PA system.
 
#18
If you have a quality stereo reverb...let it run stereo.

For the rest of the band, the idea is not to create stereo for the audience. However, IMHO, there are some things I find useful. This is YMMV so try and decide for yourself.
1. If an instrument such as guitar is too loud on one side of the audience and not loud enough on the other, consider panning the instrument to weak side.
2. Gentle panning can be used to open up/make a bit more space in the mix.
3. I would consider gentle panning for a good piano patch. Overall the panning should be fairly narrow. Again the idea is to open up the mix, rather than create an obvious stereo effect.
 
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#19
Wasnex said:
If you have a quality stereo reverb...let it run stereo.

For the rest of the band, the idea is not to create stereo for the audience. However, IMHO, there are some things I find useful. This is YMMV so try and decide for yourself.
1. If an instrument such as guitar is too loud on one side of the audience and not loud enough on the other, consider panning the instrument to weak side.
2. Gentle panning can be used to open up/make a bit more space in the mix.
3. I would consider gentle panning for a good piano patch. Overall the panning should be fairly narrow. Again the idea is to open up the mix, rather than create an obvious stereo effect.
Click to expand...
What he said!
 
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